Well-known music you've somehow overlooked (or never got round to hearing)

[Karl Henning]

Depends on how you conduct it. I think half the point of labelling it an adagietto was to tell conductors that it wasn't necessary for them to wallow in it.

I think it right to point out here, that one of the first friends of mine whom I knew to be a Mahler fan sometimes used the phrase a good wallow.  FWIW . . . .

[Sergeant Rock]

The first movement makes me think of springtime for some reason.

Mahler's original program for the Symphony called the first movement "Frühling und kein Ende" (Spring and no end). So you get it 

Does anyone else hear a Jewish-sounding melody in the 3rd mvt? It's played by the woodwinds after the "Frere Jacques" canon and in the score it is marked "with parody". Would anyone here know if that is a traditional song or just an invention of his own?

It's his own melody meant to remind one of a village band (and contrasting the tragic funeral music with the trivial). You can definitely hear the Klezmer influence. Some conductors bring out the Jewish element more than others. The lyrical episode just before the return of "Bruder Martin" ("Frere Jacques") is a direct quote from the fourth Wayfarer song, Die zwei blauen Augen von meinem Schätz.


Sarge

[Karl Henning]

The overall conception (compositionally) of the intro to that first movement of the Mahler First is a creative re-appropriation of the intro to the first movement of the LvB Fourth.

[Jo498]

The fact that the main theme of the fast section of Mahler 1,i is also self-borrowed from "Ging heut morgen übers Feld" (a song that describes spring or early summer time) is another hint that the spring association cannot be far off.
As for Frere Jacques the analogy with the last of the Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen goes even further: The first stanzas of the song are also to a slow marchtune in the minor (although a different melody from the one in the symphony) and the contrasting section has a very similar function in the song: A dream of home and the beloved he had to leave (in the song there is obviously also a Winterreise association, thematically, not necessarily musically), whereas the main sections are world weary and somewhat depressing.

[Sergeant Rock]

The overall conception (compositionally) of the intro to that first movement of the Mahler First is a creative re-appropriation of the intro to the first movement of the LvB Fourth.

Ah!...so that's why Beethoven's Fourth reminds me of spring 

Sarge

[bwv 1080]

Does anyone else hear a Jewish-sounding melody in the 3rd mvt? It's played by the woodwinds after the "Frere Jacques" canon and in the score it is marked "with parody". Would anyone here know if that is a traditional song or just an invention of his own?

dont know if its an exact quote, but it is intended to be a Klezmer band, check this out, which is a full Klezmer version of the mvmt:

https://www.youtube.com/v/x3efe-G2mxo

[Pat B]

It's his own melody meant to remind one of a village band (and contrasting the tragic funeral music with the trivial). You can definitely hear the Klezmer influence. Some conductors bring out the Jewish element more than others.

Could you name some that don't bring out the Jewish element? It's clear to me in every version I've heard, and I love it, but I'd be interested to hear a different approach.

As for the opening's similarity to Beethoven 4, I quibble with Karl's wording of "overall conception." The openings use the same tune with (I think) the same instrumentation, but they do go in their own directions soon enough. Mahler's reminds me specifically of sunrise. Beethoven's is absolute (non-program) music to me. Both are great.

[EigenUser]

Mahler's original program for the Symphony called the first movement "Frühling und kein Ende" (Spring and no end). So you get it 

I love it when that happens with music! You know, when it reveals some sort of program that happens to be the same one that the composer was thinking of. One sign (out of many) of a great composer.

It's his own melody meant to remind one of a village band (and contrasting the tragic funeral music with the trivial). You can definitely hear the Klezmer influence. Some conductors bring out the Jewish element more than others. The lyrical episode just before the return of "Bruder Martin" ("Frere Jacques") is a direct quote from the fourth Wayfarer song, Die zwei blauen Augen von meinem Schätz.


Sarge

Thanks for the information! Very interesting.

dont know if its an exact quote, but it is intended to be a Klezmer band, check this out, which is a full Klezmer version of the mvmt:

https://www.youtube.com/v/x3efe-G2mxo

Neat!

While we're on the topic of dissecting M1, I'll say that the scherzos of M2 seems to quote that of M1 in a few spots. Or, at least parts sound similar.

[Sergeant Rock]

Could you name some that don't bring out the Jewish element? It's clear to me in every version I've heard, and I love it, but I'd be interested to hear a different approach.

The Jewish element is always there but some conductors are more "tasteful" (and less fun): Norrington/Stuttgart and Ozawa/Boston spring to mind.

Sarge

[otare]

I can't really say that I have managed to avoid any of the great works from any composers. I have even seen the whole Ring in Bayreuth (2002), heard all the operas of Puccini (even Edgar), listened to all Verdis operas, heard all Schubert's songs (the Hyperion series - played as they arrived one by one), heard all of Bruckner and Mahler many times etc...
The Leslie Howard Liszt box is waiting, and I even have the Sibelius series on BIS (I have played half of it so far)
Now I try to hear music from unknown composers (or unknown music from well known composers - hence the Liszt and Sibelius boxes). I buy big boxes, because it gives me the opportunity to hear the big names again - I try to go through all the CD's in the boxes (if time allows). Now I'm on the last CD in the Decca Kertesz box which means that I'm rehearing Bartok's 3rd piano concerto, Ravel's G-major piano concerto and Prokofievs 3rd piano concerto. Now the Abbado, Fricsay and Mengelberg boxes are waiting, together with songs by Fanny Mendelssohn, madrigals by Luzzaschi, Moscheles piano music, piano trios by Bériot, La Clemenza di Tito by Gluck and Händel's Tamerlano...

Actually - there is one: Bach's Matthäus Passion. I have not been actively avoiding it, but it has never been very high on my playing list. The 3 first CDs in the Mengelberg box contains this work, so ... Recorded on Palm Sunday, April 2nd 1939 in Concertgebouw.

[lisa needs braces]

Most of Camille-Saint-Saens with the exception of the Organ Symphony and the Introduction Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso.

[Pat B]

The Jewish element is always there but some conductors are more "tasteful" (and less fun): Norrington/Stuttgart and Ozawa/Boston spring to mind.

Thanks. I haven't heard either of those. If I were conducting I think I'd emphasize it but I am curious to hear it downplayed. I'll keep my eyes open.

[marvinbrown]

Most of Camille-Saint-Saens with the exception of the Organ Symphony and the Introduction Introduction and Rondo Capriccioso.

  Rush to hear the Saint-Saens piano concertos...especially 2 and 5. MAGNIFICENT!!

  marvin

 

[Mirror Image]

  Rush to hear the Saint-Saens piano concertos...especially 2 and 5. MAGNIFICENT!!

  marvin

+1 I actually admire and love the entire cycle, though.

[pjme]

https://youtu.be/H1wN5RgI0ck

Concerto nr 4 . The sound is a bit boxy, but Mme. Darré has real finesse for this music.  Excellent quoi!
P.

[Rinaldo]

I tend to avoid the Russians. I've yet to hear a Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev or Rachmaninoff work in its entirety and the only Stravinski I've sat through was the Rite (and didn't really care much for it).

There are exceptions, obviously: Schnittke, I adore, and Shostakovich's SQ's are ace.

I thought my reluctance to invest time in these composers might stem from some subconscious prejudice (given the history between my country and the Soviet Union) but I think it's simpler than that: many of those big names come from the Romantic period, my least favourite in the classical ouevre.

Also, Mahler's 9th. Don't ask. It's complicated.

[Karl Henning]

I tend to avoid the Russians. I've yet to hear a Tchaikovsky, Prokofiev or Rachmaninoff work in its entirety and the only Stravinski I've sat through was the Rite (and didn't really care much for it).

http://www.youtube.com/v/OYMDHYYnptQ

http://www.youtube.com/v/nGfWVh98p2g

[Rinaldo]

Highly convenient, thank you!

[Karl Henning]

At your service!

[Rons_talking]

If I've heard Beethoven's 2nd I don't recall it. Shame on me! Also, music of the early Romantic period doesn't do much for me. No Schubert in my collection.