Well-known music you've somehow overlooked (or never got round to hearing)

[Monsieur Croche]

The old saw that there is just not enough time for it all is more than true. I think it best to be selective and spend the time accordingly. You really can't "miss" something you've never experienced. Save for a nagging awareness of a piece you really think you want to hear, keep listening to and exploring the kind of music you like. Often enough that leads you to other music anyway, or triggers yet another area of curiosity.

I have heard, over a relatively long life, more music than I can ever fully recall or keep in memory, and the vast majority of it has been quite aggressively sought out. One simply can not make time for it all, even when it is your profession. I've read about a lot of repertoire I'm fairly certain I will never get to, including 'famous works by the most highly regarded composers.'

I'm sure I have not heard or read through all of the chamber works of Beethoven, Mozart, or many others. I'm not even sure I've heard all of the Mozart Piano concerti. Formerly, as a very regularly practicing pianist, I know I have read through all the Beethoven and Mozart sonatas, but that is not the entirety of their piano music.

That out of the way, since I have no hunger for a type of listener's method I've seen often enough on fora, I doubt if at any time even if the recordings were in my possession would I make an appointed schedule to listen to the nine Beethoven symphonies back to back, or make any similar "listening feeds." This mode of going at it is so truly alien to me that I just can not understand why anyone would go about any repertoire so methodically. Some of that approach I think has to do with some notion of 'acquisition,' and that is something else other than just loving music.

I had heard of, read about Rameau, "knew of him" since middle school, probably, but it wasn't until I was in my forties that I picked up a fine recording and that led me to seek out more. I had the same kind of experience with a number of Italian composers from the mid-twentieth century, first read about in childhood, the same names coming up again in the music school textbooks and again mentioned by teachers, always as "fine composers," where even in school, one did not look at their scores or listen to any of it, but you read and heard "They are fine composers," lol. I did not get around to the likes of Casella, Rieti, Dallapiccolo and many others from that era until but a few years ago, and then, they were a delightful surprise and kind of new find -- which happens less and less the more years of listening experience you have. There are likely as many more I might still be curious about whose works I just will not get to.

As great as some composers are or may be, over repeated assays of listening to their work I still find little appeal or interest enough for me to want to pursue more. For example, the complete Wagner Ring Cycle or all of Bruckner's symphonies; I know I've heard enough to know I won't pursue the rest. I've heard enough of Bach's St. Matthew Passion to know well enough I don't want to sit through the whole thing.

I think everyone has some music, somehow on that obligatory list given us through various books, tomes, and word of mouth, about which they too feel quite the same; other works await which hold greater interest.

Getting around to something one does have a great curiosity about I think is something anyone would prefer to realize, though. Not doing so, and having it on ones mind could lead to a nagging sense of an incomplete 'want to / should' that is better realized, even if the anticipated work less than satisfies.

Make your own map, then, and even then, readily accept the fact you might not 'go everywhere' on that map. I can virtually guarantee, even if what you know is nowhere near complete-ist, that if you live long enough and continue listening to works new to you, you will have experienced more repertoire than you can possibly remember, and that, before you pop your clogs, will have to be enough

[some guy]

This made me grin:

I've heard enough of Bach's St. Matthew Passion to know well enough I don't want to sit through the whole thing.

I don't dare put the St. Matthew Passion on unless I know I have enough free time to listen to the whole thing. Once that opening phrase has played, I'm hooked. (I'm also a huge Bruckner fan, though there are some symphonies of his I never listen to any more.)

The principle is sound, though, if I may be permitted a wee pun.

Here's my take on the larger matter:
 

The old saw that there is just not enough time for it all is more than true.

I'd like to offer an alternative to this time thing. What I have found first of all is that "time" is a thing that's experienced. What clocks do is impose a strict measurement on that largely subjective experience, giving the illusion that time is a known quantity.

When I'm doing something engaging, I do not have any sense of time passing. Nor does looking at the clock give me any useful information about what I've done. Clocks and calendars are for coordinating encounters with other people, if you're into that kind of thing. Otherwise.... In short, while I have infrequently felt like there's not enough time to do everything I want to do, I have found that if I simply do things, then there I am, doing things. And time doesn't enter into it. So I don't have to be selective, thank God, because time is not something I spend. I'm alive. I do things. The end.

You really can't "miss" something you've never experienced.

True. However, I would not use that observation to determine whether to explore or not. I often hear people say that life is too short for exploration, for drinking bad wine or listening to crappy music. This is a trap, however. Concealed in that innocent looking bromide is a poisonous sting--if you don't drink for yourself or listen for yourself, you don't really know if the wine is bad, for you, or if the music is crappy, for you. You are giving over your living to someone else. Well, it's your life; I guess you can do whatever you want with it. (I know that M. Croche already knows that I have just used "you" in its meaning of "one" and not to refer to the good monsieur himself. That is, I want to be sure that you know I'm talking to you )

I have heard, over a relatively long life, more music than I can ever fully recall or keep in memory, and the vast majority of it has been quite aggressively sought out. One simply can not make time for it all, even when it is your profession.

When I first read this, I thought, "you and me both," and then I realized, "Hey, wait a minute, I have no idea how long my life has been, any more than I have any idea how old I am."* I know how to use clocks and calendars to make and meet appointments you know. I don't use them for any other purpose. I've got stuff to do!

I just can not understand why anyone would go about any repertoire so methodically.

As someone who has done this, I would have to agree. Why would anyone do this?

Getting around to something one does have a great curiosity about I think is something anyone would prefer to realize, though. Not doing so, and having it on ones mind could lead to a nagging sense of an incomplete 'want to / should' that is better realized, even if the anticipated work less than satisfies.

I've figured out a way around this one. Don't listen in order to be satisfied. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but really, especially for something you've never heard before, there's no guarantee it's going to please you right off. Maybe it will; maybe it won't. I think the first thing to do with a new piece is accept. Sounds passive, right? It's not. Think of how aggressively you dislike certain things. Now try to like them. Hard work, no? Well accepting is an active thing, actively putting aside your tastes, your desires, your needs in order to take in what's being presented to you.

Oh, it's fun!

Make your own map, then, and even then, readily accept the fact you might not 'go everywhere' on that map. I can virtually guarantee, even if what you know is nowhere near complete-ist, that if you live long enough and continue listening to works new to you, you will have experienced more repertoire than you can possibly remember, and that, before you pop your clogs, will have to be enough.

I'm going to pop my clogs? What? I did not know that. Shit! There's not enough time!!!

*Yes, I do know when I was born (it was a couple of years after the person who posts as M. Croche was born), and I can do math. But once I have the number 63 to look at, I can't make it mean anything, that's all. Plus, in a couple of months, the number will change.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

M. Croche, I won't be doing a thorough response to everything in your post, but I do admire the sentiment you have towards music which seems or be something along the lines of enjoying music for music's sake, without a hunger for possession, an addiction to purchase recordings and whatnot.

As for me, I think the whole idea of 'acquiring recordings' is something I've only ever learnt about when discovering classical music fora online and the people who collect music to listen to systematically. Seeing shiny new CDs of music has always appealed to my own hunger for music, and when I first saw all the kinds of recordings of classical music I at first leapt for it and tried to throw all my money into buying CDs whenever I could. After a while I began to realise that this is not what classical music is about to me, and there are many alternative ways I can enjoy music for myself and share it with others too.

I can't say I can really post much in this thread as to music I have 'somehow managed to avoid' because I have hardly managed to scrape the surface of knowing what there is to know about classical music. Even when it comes to buying a cd here and there, I do it if there's something I find that is very cheap, or something that I can buy more easily than listen to online. There's not enough time in the remaining decades that I have to build a comprehensive CD hoard!

[Monsieur Croche]

This made me grin: I don't dare put the St. Matthew Passion on unless I know I have enough free time to listen to the whole thing. Once that opening phrase has played, I'm hooked. (I'm also a huge Bruckner fan, though there are some symphonies of his I never listen to any more.)

It is different things for different folk. I think I feel the same about a number of Feldman pieces, once begun and I'm hooked, and I do want to experience the whole thing.

The principle is sound, though, if I may be permitted a wee pun.

I'd like to offer an alternative to this time thing. What I have found first of all is that "time" is a thing that's experienced. What clocks do is impose a strict measurement on that largely subjective experience, giving the illusion that time is a known quantity.

When I'm doing something engaging, I do not have any sense of time passing. Nor does looking at the clock give me any useful information about what I've done. ...while I have infrequently felt like there's not enough time to do everything I want to do, I have found that if I simply do things, then there I am, doing things. And time doesn't enter into it. So I don't have to be selective, thank God, because time is not something I spend. I'm alive. I do things. The end.

That analog time, appointments, and something implicit about that analog time inherent in the OP is what had me addressing the feeling of obligation and pressure which quite seem to accompany it. If people don't give that up, then 'spending the time with music' will have them 'worried about that time,' feeling guilty, and not yielding to the music -- because somewhere in the back of their mind, the meter is running. 

Music is about the biggest 'blow analog time out of existence mind bender' of all the arts. I'm sure that is a good deal of its attraction once people have experienced it. If you are unconcerned and just listen, it will do its job, and as you've said, you will have the time a literal world apart from any analog time concerns, and something will have been done.

True. However, I would not use that observation to determine whether to explore or not. Concealed in that innocent looking bromide is a poisonous sting--if you don't drink for yourself or listen for yourself, you don't really know if the wine is bad, for you, or if the music is crappy, for you.

But of course, while it is more than good you said that plain. The way I had put it, it could be mistaken. You've got to explore and make your own mistakes because what is gotten in that is something very crucial -- knowing more and more what you might not want to spend your time with or not doing makes what you do want to spend your time with that much clearer. It is to be hoped that a constant curiosity will have anyone forever trying 'new things,' the better to know if those are also, or aren't, for them. I'd say try those bad wines several times over [though three times is enough, lol.] The more yeses and nos you have to sort, the more 'answers' suited to you you will have. Try it all -- as long as it doesn't kill you, ha haaaa.

"I have no idea how long my life has been, any more than I have any idea how old I am." I know how to use clocks and calendars to make and meet appointments. I don't use them for any other purpose. I've got stuff to do!

Amen to that. Appointments, yes, they must run by analog / clock time to get those appointment things done. Anything else engaging and not an appointment, for me those are reading a book, a score, sight-reading or practicing, composing, and when involved with those [or well-concentrated in any way on anything] is where no analog time exists, and any way anyone can find their way to that state, I think they are better off for it.

Don't listen in order to be satisfied.

Doh, and yeah. Listen to hear what it is. The biggest 'labor' there is the letting go of one's expectations built upon past listening experiences. If more people approached any new piece that way, there would be no 'struggle' nor comments like 'it doesn't have a melody,' or 'no form' [hey, if it has any kind of shape at all, that is form... not symphonic, not common practice development, while more of that is in music which people think does not have those things than they will ever recognize if they don't let go and let the music do its stuff.] "I can't get into this because it is not developmental." So? There is another way of doing things, maybe successfully. It will never be successful if you are wanting and hunting for 'development' where there is none of the traditional sort.

I'm going to pop my clogs? What? I did not know that. Shit! There's not enough time!!!

Yes, Virginia, we will all pop our clogs. No sense getting ready for it, or resigning oneself to it, because it will happen no matter what. In the meanwhile, things to do, or, as the line in Zorba the Greek has it, "Life is what you do while you're waiting to die." Hop to it, then.

...once I have the number 63 to look at, I can't make it mean anything, that's all. Plus, in a couple of months, the number will change.

a-yep. The new number startles each time it rolls around, puzzles because it signifies something, while I have yet to get much 'meaning' out of it.

[NikF]

Mendelssohn. I've been looking at this boxed set in an attempt to remedy that.

[asin]B00005ONMP[/asin]

However with composers who are new to me I often find their chamber music is a good introduction.

[North Star]

Mendelssohn. I've been looking at this boxed set in an attempt to remedy that.

However with composers who are new to me I often find their chamber music is a good introduction.

I don't know the Abbado set, but I can make some suggestions for starting points with Mendelssohn: the piano trios, string quartets (esp. no. 6), piano music (Songs Without Words, Preludes and Fugues, Op. 35), Overture and incidental music to A Midsummer Night's Dream, Symphony no. 3 'Scottish', and Hebrides Overture (aka Fingal's Cave).

[Wanderer]

Mendelssohn. I've been looking at this boxed set in an attempt to remedy that.

[asin]B00005ONMP[/asin]

However with composers who are new to me I often find their chamber music is a good introduction.

I'm not really fond of that set, Abbado's versions of the symphonies seem a little off to me (although the overtures are good, especially the Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt). If it has to be a set, I'd rather suggest this one: [asin]B000EQHV4S[/asin] ...and for just one more, I'd suggest: [asin]B008OGI5ZO[/asin]

[Brian]

However with composers who are new to me I often find their chamber music is a good introduction.

With Mendelssohn, chamber music really could be the best introduction. The piano trios, string quartets, sextet, and octet are all first-rate stuff. Of course, there's some great orchestral music too, but I don't seem to listen to it as much as the other stuff these days.

Mendelssohn also wrote the occasional great work for piano, if you're into that. Top of my list: the six preludes and fugues, Op. 35.

[Monsieur Croche]

M. Croche, I won't be doing a thorough response to everything in your post, but I do admire the sentiment you have towards music which seems or be something along the lines of enjoying music for music's sake, without a hunger for possession, an addiction to purchase recordings and whatnot.

As for me, I think the whole idea of 'acquiring recordings' is something I've only ever learnt about when discovering classical music fora online and the people who collect music to listen to systematically. Seeing shiny new CDs of music has always appealed to my own hunger for music, and when I first saw all the kinds of recordings of classical music I at first leapt for it and tried to throw all my money into buying CDs whenever I could. After a while I began to realise that this is not what classical music is about to me, and there are many alternative ways I can enjoy music for myself and share it with others too.

If I won a lotto, big time, I would very soon thereafter hire a secretary whose sole job was to assist me in compiling an extensive list of recordings, and they would then be the one to place the orders and become the librarian /curator of that new collection until I knew my way around it. HOWEVER, for most musicians, this is not the top priority, and unless one has the means, the amount some others spend on their CD collection is better spent by the musician on instrumental supplies, manuscript paper, scores, reference books, and -- attending live performances. A nice CD collection can be bought up, over time, fairly easily, and with so many recordings, even those out of print relatively easy to obtain and most at a reasonable price, the younger musician really does not need to own a truckload of recordings any time soon. That you are off to college in but moments is yet another point of argument that you have near to no business acquiring any kind of mass of goods -- the lifestyle of the next four or six years just does not accommodate that, lol.

Instrumental supplies, manuscript paper, scores, reference books, and -- attending live performances. ...and sure, pick up CDs here and there. They're very nice to have 

[some guy]

If I won a lotto, big time, I would very soon thereafter hire a secretary whose sole job was to assist me in compiling an extensive list of recordings, and they would then be the one to place the orders and become the librarian /curator of that new collection until I knew my way around it. HOWEVER, for most musicians, this is not the top priority, and unless one has the means, so much money spent on CDs by other collectors is better spent by the musician on instrumental supplies, manuscript paper, scores, reference books, and -- attending live performances. A nice CD collection can be bought up, over time, fairly easily, and with so many recordings, even those out of print, relatively easy to obtain, most at a reasonable price, the younger musician really does not need to own a truckload of recordings any time soon. That you are off to college in but moments is yet another point of argument that you have near to no business acquiring any kind of mass of goods -- the lifestyle of the next four or six years just does not accommodate that, lol.

Instrumental supplies, manuscript paper, scores, reference books, and -- attending live performances. ...and sure, pick up CDs here and there. They're very nice to have 

Boy howdy.

All my life, I measured how much things cost by LPs, and then CDs, not by dollars. My last car, for example, could have been a thousand CDs or more. (I buy used when I can.)

Then, eleven years ago, I decided to start an online music magazine and attend concerts all over the world and write about them. That would have purchased many, many thousands of CDs. Instead, I bought airline tickets and hotel rooms and attended concerts, all while maintaining an apartment in the US. in 2009, I attended more concerts in a year than there are days in the same. Some days, I didn't go to any concerts, some days I went to three or four. Damn, that was fun. Plus, you meet more composers at concerts than you do in CD stores. I've only met one composer, very briefly, in a CD store. At concerts, though, you can meet a dozen composers in as many minutes.

That's my "extra-musical" drug of choice, meeting composers and other musicians. Yeah. Nice people on the whole. (I've actually never met a composer who was an any less than splendid person, but I've been assured that they do exist, one or two of them. )

[Brian]

That's my "extra-musical" drug of choice, meeting composers and other musicians. Yeah. Nice people on the whole. (I've actually never met a composer who was an any less than splendid person, but I've been assured that they do exist, one or two of them. )

Starting a new thread in the Diner.

[Monsieur Croche]

"That's my "extra-musical" drug of choice, meeting composers and other musicians. Yeah. Nice people on the whole. (I've actually never met a composer who was an any less than splendid person, but I've been assured that they do exist, one or two of them. )" ~ Some Guy

Starting a new thread in the Diner.

Oh, whatever your intent, please call it, "I have yet to meet a _____ I didn't like." 

[Karl Henning]

That's my "extra-musical" drug of choice, meeting composers and other musicians. Yeah. Nice people on the whole. (I've actually never met a composer who was an any less than splendid person, but I've been assured that they do exist, one or two of them. )

I'm glad I managed not to prove exceptional, there 

[Karl Henning]

Listen to hear what it is.

This is beautiful.

[NikF]

I don't know the Abbado set, but I can make some suggestions for starting points with Mendelssohn: the piano trios, string quartets (esp. no. 6), piano music (Songs Without Words, Preludes and Fugues, Op. 35), Overture and incidental music to A Midsummer Night's Dream, Symphony no. 3 'Scottish', and Hebrides Overture (aka Fingal's Cave).

I'm not really fond of that set, Abbado's versions of the symphonies seem a little off to me (although the overtures are good, especially the Meeresstille und glückliche Fahrt). If it has to be a set, I'd rather suggest this one: [asin]B000EQHV4S[/asin] ...and for just one more, I'd suggest: [asin]B008OGI5ZO[/asin]

With Mendelssohn, chamber music really could be the best introduction. The piano trios, string quartets, sextet, and octet are all first-rate stuff. Of course, there's some great orchestral music too, but I don't seem to listen to it as much as the other stuff these days.

Mendelssohn also wrote the occasional great work for piano, if you're into that. Top of my list: the six preludes and fugues, Op. 35.

Thank you all for your suggestions and insights, it's appreciated.
I've had a listen to some of the Masur/Gewandhaus and despite only being via YouTube it sounded fine, and so I'll go ahead and order that. As for the chamber music, I heard the Melos Quartet from the same source and will add that in my basket too.

[listener]

PARSIFAL    The bits I've heard were very nice, but five hours worth? and I have two unheard recordings of it.

[(poco) Sforzando]

PARSIFAL    The bits I've heard were very nice, but five hours worth? and I have two unheard recordings of it.

It's only five hours when James Levine conducts it (though supposedly Toscanini was also very slow in this work). Get the Boulez and it's only three.

That said, Parsifal is my least favorite mature work by Wagner. I feel Wagner was very tired by the time he wrote it, and I hate the fake religiosity. I cannot be alone in this; I have been given free tickets by friends to hear Parsifal more than any other opera.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Boy howdy.

All my life, I measured how much things cost by LPs, and then CDs, not by dollars. My last car, for example, could have been a thousand CDs or more. (I buy used when I can.)

Then, eleven years ago, I decided to start an online music magazine and attend concerts all over the world and write about them. That would have purchased many, many thousands of CDs. Instead, I bought airline tickets and hotel rooms and attended concerts, all while maintaining an apartment in the US. in 2009, I attended more concerts in a year than there are days in the same. Some days, I didn't go to any concerts, some days I went to three or four. Damn, that was fun. Plus, you meet more composers at concerts than you do in CD stores. I've only met one composer, very briefly, in a CD store. At concerts, though, you can meet a dozen composers in as many minutes.

That's my "extra-musical" drug of choice, meeting composers and other musicians. Yeah. Nice people on the whole. (I've actually never met a composer who was an any less than splendid person, but I've been assured that they do exist, one or two of them. )

Ha! I've only met one composer in a CD shop too, but that was because he works there.

[some guy]

I'm glad I managed not to prove exceptional, there 

Hah! You weren't even close to exceptional--not in that regard, anyway. In other regards, sure!!

[listener]

It's only five hours when James Levine conducts it ... Get the Boulez and it's only three..... I feel Wagner was very tired by the time he wrote it,...

Alas, that's one of the recordings I have, the other is in that 30-disc set we (almost all, I suspect) bought a while ago.
I get tired thinking about it, but maybe it will go with some medication while I get rid of this cold.