Scottish Independence Referendum

[not edward]

I think the elephant in the room with regard to the referendum is actually the behaviour of the 'Better Together' campaign.

For most of the campaign duration, the independence movement had gained zero traction, essentially flatlining about 20 points adrift in the opinion polls, and it was obvious to most seasoned observers that barring acts of God, the only way that it could win would be by the opposition self-destructing.

Which to some extent they did, by rolling out one of the most bizarrely incompetent, mean-spirited and negative campaigns I've seen in a long time--they couldn't have done any worse if they'd nominated Sarah Palin for vice-president. As former First Minister Henry McLeish--who is oppposed to independence--noted: if all you do is keep telling people they can't do something, don't be surprised if they decide to prove you wrong.

It's very revealing that Gordon Brown is being hailed in some quarters as the saviour of the union, merely for the innovative idea of going positive in the campaign. (For our American readers, Brown is a terrible campaigner: think the bastard child of Michael Dukakis and Al Gore.)

One hope I have in the aftermath is that disappointed yes voters will not blame the English for the nature of the No campaign. While English people were involved in the campaign, most of the worst offenders were Scots.

[Ken B]

I think the elephant in the room with regard to the referendum is actually the behaviour of the 'Better Together' campaign.

For most of the campaign duration, the independence movement had gained zero traction, essentially flatlining about 20 points adrift in the opinion polls, and it was obvious to most seasoned observers that barring acts of God, the only way that it could win would be by the opposition self-destructing.

Which to some extent they did, by rolling out one of the most bizarrely incompetent, mean-spirited and negative campaigns I've seen in a long time--they couldn't have done any worse if they'd nominated Sarah Palin for vice-president. As former First Minister Henry McLeish--who is oppposed to independence--noted: if all you do is keep telling people they can't do something, don't be surprised if they decide to prove you wrong.

It's very revealing that Gordon Brown is being hailed in some quarters as the saviour of the union, merely for the innovative idea of going positive in the campaign. (For our American readers, Brown is a terrible campaigner: think the bastard child of Michael Dukakis and Al Gore.)

One hope I have in the aftermath is that disappointed yes voters will not blame the English for the nature of the No campaign. While English people were involved in the campaign, most of the worst offenders were Scots.

I think you're wrong about one thing. After McCain's remarkably bad performance as a candidate Palin stopped the defeat from turning into an LBJ size landslide by holding the base.

[mc ukrneal]

With 26 of 32 precincts reporting, it's 54% - 46% (or NO). So it looks like Scotland isn't going anywhere. Reports are of 86% turnout. I read elsewhere that Glasgow voted Yes. Here's an article - sure there will be plenty more: http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/world/results-suggest-scots-reject-independence/nhQRg/

[snyprrr]

REJEEECTED!! ouch




LET THE PURGES BEGIN!!

[snyprrr]

AND THE STREETS RAN RED

[Florestan]

Common sense prevailed. That's a very good thing.

[springrite]

Like its football team often does, the pro-independence side successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory! (and it's a good thing)

[Ken B]

Common sense prevailed.

So you're saying it was a fluke.

[Florestan]

So you're saying it was a fluke.

Be more specific, please. What was a fluke? The referendum in itself? The result?

[snyprrr]

Common sense prevailed. That's a very good thing.

why would scottie want to be saddled with english debt?  why was it bad news to leave?  didn't it work for iceland? I'm not pretending to understand all this- can you explain?

[Ken B]

why would scottie want to be saddled with english debt?  why was it bad news to leave?  didn't it work for iceland? I'm not pretending to understand all this- can you explain?

We have evidence Scotsman should not be allowed out unsupervised.

[kishnevi]

We have evidence Scotsman should not be allowed out unsupervised.

Snypps is a Yank.  Scotland has enough problems, you do not need to add him to the pile.

[Gurn Blanston]

Be more specific, please. What was a fluke? The referendum in itself? The result?

Common sense prevailing. A fluke by any other name.

why would scottie want to be saddled with english debt?  why was it bad news to leave?  didn't it work for iceland? I'm not pretending to understand all this- can you explain?

It was Scotland's debt too. If you were married and you and your spouse incurred debts, you wouldn't be relieved of the debt just because you divorced. The law may be different but the morality is the same.

It's bad news because together as a united bloc, all parties benefit. If 1/3 of your company, and a profitable third at that, was to break away for some reason, your entire company would suffer economically. And your third would too, because part of the reason you are profitable comes from reliance on the advantages of scale. So your buying power would be eroded.

If Scotland suddenly had to begin doing the various things that the entire bloc does now, such as its own defense, then any perceived tax savings will be pie in the sky. Unless they are planning to emulate Switzerland or Sweden. Hard to see the Scots remaining neutral through some of the bad stuff you see going on now.

[snyprrr]

Snypps is a Yank.  Scotland has enough problems, you do not need to add him to the pile.

Originally from the Isle of Barra

We have evidence Scotsman should not be allowed out unsupervised.

I could've sworn Scottie was already independent- I mean, who the f thinks about Scotland? This all just happened in a two week news cycle, now it's over. Yea, am I supposed to have a degree in Scottish-English Financial and Social Constructs??? Did I know there was oil in Scottie? Have I spent too much time in Greg's Thread?

Just tell me why 'Independence' was the bad route. Is Scottie just that much of a 'tard? or what? IHe can't be trusted to go unsupervszed? 'm not fishing for anything particular.

And I sure don't know why the Scots and Irish don't like each other, but apparently the irish ARE 'Independent'--- so, what, are the legendary Scotties just metrosexual wusses??? Does this have something to do with Mel Gibson? He sure made Scottie look good- -- did something happen??

not trolling 0:)

Common sense prevailing. A fluke by any other name.

It was Scotland's debt too. If you were married and you and your spouse incurred debts, you wouldn't be relieved of the debt just because you divorced. The law may be different but the morality is the same.

It's bad news because together as a united bloc, all parties benefit. If 1/3 of your company, and a profitable third at that, was to break away for some reason, your entire company would suffer economically. And your third would too, because part of the reason you are profitable comes from reliance on the advantages of scale. So your buying power would be eroded.

If Scotland suddenly had to begin doing the various things that the entire bloc does now, such as its own defense, then any perceived tax savings will be pie in the sky. Unless they are planning to emulate Switzerland or Sweden. Hard to see the Scots remaining neutral through some of the bad stuff you see going on now.

thanks for an actual ANSWER!!!

HOWEVER- it stills sounds as though the only concern was for the Banksters to remain the status quo.

OF COURSE there would be hardship, because the Banksters have addicted people to their nefarious brand of "credit/debit" whereby they enslave through usury (making the money, then charging insterest when they only made the princip)----

THAT'S THE SAME LAME EXCUSE THEY USED IN 2008 with the "too big to fail"

WELL GUESS WHAT??? Those banks are bigger than EVER now and practicing the same "principles" that got us where we are today.



So I say---- BRING THE PAIN!!


This dovetails into the Greg Thread, because that seems to be the one thing about the obesity epidemic is that soft squishy people are just AFRAID OF PAIN!!!



PAIN IS WEAKNESS LEAVING THE BODY

Therefore- Scotland 'leaving' would have been pain, sure, but it would have made an internal strength later.



You all are just mouthpieces for the money-junkies

Money Junkies All of You

(pay your debt with money you borrowed)- that's my new mantra



You Are the Ones Who Borrow Money to Pay Your Debts                        Afraid of Real Cleansing Pain             Coddled Wards of the State




cheers!!
(you know I love you all!- mwah mwah mwah )

[springrite]

So I say---- BRING THE PAIN!!

Pain is only painful when it lack variety. Independence would make Marquis de Sade proud.

[Karl Henning]

85% of the electorate turned out for the vote!  Read it, USA, and weep.

[Luke]

85% of the electorate turned out for the vote!  Read it, USA, and weep.

Though of course, according to the Russians, this just indicates that the vote was rigged, North Korea stylee.

[Todd]

85% of the electorate turned out for the vote!  Read it, USA, and weep.

Maybe some parts of the country should weep, but the Beaver State has voted at the 80%-85% rate in general elections since 2000.  I'm tellin' ya', mail-in ballots are the way to go.

[not edward]

Though of course, according to the Russians, this just indicates that the vote was rigged, North Korea stylee.

You get 'em everywhere: some people were convinced that yes votes in Dundee were being counted as no.

The yes campaign ended up taking to Twitter to try to calm them down.

[Ken B]

85% of the electorate turned out for the vote!  Read it, USA, and weep.

I disagree. High turnout is a fetish, and a destructive one. Most people should not vote. "I have no idea" is best expressed by not voting.