Schumann: Dichterliebe Op. 48

[amw]

I almost never listen to songs, due to disliking most classical singers intensely, but for whatever reason I've become quite interested in this cycle lately. However I'm looking for a recording with some rather specific requirements and could use some suggestions.

First of all I want a version of Dichterliebe that restores the four songs Schumann cut for publication: Dein Angesicht, Lehn deine Wang, Es leuchtet meine Liebe & Mein Wagen rollet langsam (later published posthumously as part of Opp. 127 and 142). They don't need to be in sequence on the CD, I can intersperse them where appropriate when I rip it, but they should be performed under the same recording conditions so that I can listen to them as an uninterrupted cycle.

Second, singers:
- Wobbliness, bellowing/squeaking and poor intonation will not be tolerated by me. As a guideline, the less vibrato and the more accurate the intonation, the better.
- For that matter, any absolutely vibrato-free recordings will be considered with enthusiasm.
- Breathiness is not a substitute for a proper pianissimo, and yelling is not a substitute for a proper forte.
- Please at least try to pay attention to when Schumann does unexpected things like leave the melody unresolved or keep singer and pianist out of phase rhythmically etc. Don't just sing the notes in other words.
- Tenors preferred, but I will also consider sopranos and baritones if they meet my conditions otherwise
- No DFD
- No Uri Caine.

Pianists:
- Should be Wilhelm Kempff and/or Martha Argerich, or as close as it is possible to get to one of the above

Let me know if you have any ideas

[mc ukrneal]

That's it?! Sure you don't have more conditions?

I don't really know many that include the other four on the same disc with dichterliebe. I think that is the hardest part of the request.  I know of two off the top of my head - one I wouldn't recommend and the other is a Hyperion release (volume 5 in their series). Being Hyperion, their site has really good samples, so you can see if you would like it. Maltman is not my favorite, but I seem to recall him doing a fairly good job (but I don't know how well he meets your criteria). He's not a tenor either.

Peter Schreier did a lot of the songs and that could be an option (know he did the cycle, but not sure about the other four). If I have time later, I'll take a look and see what I else I can think of (or perhaps someone here will have a good option).

[Jo498]

I think Hampson is the only one I know with the 4 cut songs in place or easily restorable by programming the player. I am not so fond of his voice and cannot comment from memory whether the other conditions are met.
If Gerhaher has done it, he would be probably preferable. (Both are baritones)

With Chr. Pregardien (tenor) you can get Dichterliebe with Fortepiano accompaniment and the 4 other songs on a different disc (with opp. 24 and 35) with modern piano. Probably not good for ripping. I do not know if the 4 left out songs are findable with Schreier, but presumably they are.

Whatever the reason, most singers go with the standard version, so getting the 4 additional songs seems to seriously reduce your choices.

[mc ukrneal]

Had a minute to check Amazon and Schreier does have all of them (on Berlin Classics, though just released on Brilliant as well), though it looks like they are across at least two discs (though you can get his set of 4-5 discs in one go). There were samples, so you can check out the singing there as well.

PS: And I got another one - Ian Bostridge.

[Mandryka]

Can someone please explain to me what romantic irony is? And why Heine's poem is supposed to exemplify it? And whether Schumann's song cycle is romantically ironic , whatever that may be.

[Mandryka]

I almost never listen to songs, due to disliking most classical singers intensely, but for whatever reason I've become quite interested in this cycle lately. However I'm looking for a recording with some rather specific requirements and could use some suggestions.

First of all I want a version of Dichterliebe that restores the four songs Schumann cut for publication: Dein Angesicht, Lehn deine Wang, Es leuchtet meine Liebe & Mein Wagen rollet langsam (later published posthumously as part of Opp. 127 and 142). They don't need to be in sequence on the CD, I can intersperse them where appropriate when I rip it, but they should be performed under the same recording conditions so that I can listen to them as an uninterrupted cycle.

Second, singers:
- Wobbliness, bellowing/squeaking and poor intonation will not be tolerated by me. As a guideline, the less vibrato and the more accurate the intonation, the better.
- For that matter, any absolutely vibrato-free recordings will be considered with enthusiasm.
- Breathiness is not a substitute for a proper pianissimo, and yelling is not a substitute for a proper forte.
- Please at least try to pay attention to when Schumann does unexpected things like leave the melody unresolved or keep singer and pianist out of phase rhythmically etc. Don't just sing the notes in other words.
- Tenors preferred, but I will also consider sopranos and baritones if they meet my conditions otherwise
- No DFD
- No Uri Caine.

Pianists:
- Should be Wilhelm Kempff and/or Martha Argerich, or as close as it is possible to get to one of the above

Let me know if you have any ideas

Try Fassbaender, but you will have to piece together the extra songs from other recordings.

[Jo498]

Some of Heine's poems are unabashedly romantic, some are making fun of romantic sentimentality. Several are "in between"; it is very difficult to tell how serious he is.
(One of the songs set by Schumann in the op.24 Liederkreis "Manchmal wollt ich fast verzagen" is supposedly not about unhappy love, but about an ill-fitting shoe that was too painful to wear...)

The idea is that one is emotionally so devastated, he has to treat his lovesickness or whatever in a seemingly lightweight, ironic way drawing on all kinds of symbols and metaphors from the romantic repertory, often in an exaggerated way.
In Dichterliebe Heine is playing with all those romantic topoi (springtime, flowers, dreams etc.). A poem like "Ein Jüngling liebt ein Mädchen" seems simple, almost crude and a little clumsy, folksong/folkpoem like, at the same time simplifying and exaggerating. "Es ist eine alte Geschichte", it's happening all the time, but when you are the one suffering from it, your hear breaks apart. "bricht entzwei" literally means that something is breaking into two pieces, like a coffee mug, the metaphor is both naive and exaggerated. (In fact, the "same old story" happened to Heine himself when he was in love with a distant cousin who apparently married another guy for spite, because she could not marry the one she originally wanted.)

The last poem "Die alten bösen Lieder" is not as naive, but full of reflective irony. Heine uses famous German sights (bridge, giant statue, huge wine barrel) to symbolically bury his unhappy love and his songs about the unhappy love in the sea. Again, a highly indirect fashion to put an end to an unhappy affair.
(Similarly, but a little more realistically in op.24 the unhappy lover has apparently emigrated and sends his poems in a little book, adorned with flowers and trinkets, back to his former beloved in the far country.)

students of 19th century literature and romanticism might be able to say more about this, but I hope, it's somewhat helpful.

Of course it is an entirely different question how this irony can be and is put in music. I am not sure about Schumann, but I think Schubert took the Heine poems he set in "Schwanengesang" rather unironically. E.g. in "Atlas" I am pretty sure, Heine is not entirely serious, because it is so exaggerated: a whole world of pain, infinite joy or infinite pain etc. But the Schubert setting sound quite serious to me.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Ian Bostridge has the four additional songs and is a tenor. He does exaggerate the extreme dynamics at times, but I think he gets the irony of the cycle (however you care to define that) and his singing is quite beautiful at times. One Amazon reviewer thought his "Ich grolle nicht" the weak point of the performance; I think it's spot on.

[Mandryka]

Some of Heine's poems are unabashedly romantic, some are making fun of romantic sentimentality. Several are "in between"; it is very difficult to tell how serious he is.
(One of the songs set by Schumann in the op.24 Liederkreis "Manchmal wollt ich fast verzagen" is supposedly not about unhappy love, but about an ill-fitting shoe that was too painful to wear...)

The idea is that one is emotionally so devastated, he has to treat his lovesickness or whatever in a seemingly lightweight, ironic way drawing on all kinds of symbols and metaphors from the romantic repertory, often in an exaggerated way.
In Dichterliebe Heine is playing with all those romantic topoi (springtime, flowers, dreams etc.). A poem like "Ein Jüngling liebt ein Mädchen" seems simple, almost crude and a little clumsy, folksong/folkpoem like, at the same time simplifying and exaggerating. "Es ist eine alte Geschichte", it's happening all the time, but when you are the one suffering from it, your hear breaks apart. "bricht entzwei" literally means that something is breaking into two pieces, like a coffee mug, the metaphor is both naive and exaggerated. (In fact, the "same old story" happened to Heine himself when he was in love with a distant cousin who apparently married another guy for spite, because she could not marry the one she originally wanted.)

The last poem "Die alten bösen Lieder" is not as naive, but full of reflective irony. Heine uses famous German sights (bridge, giant statue, huge wine barrel) to symbolically bury his unhappy love and his songs about the unhappy love in the sea. Again, a highly indirect fashion to put an end to an unhappy affair.
(Similarly, but a little more realistically in op.24 the unhappy lover has apparently emigrated and sends his poems in a little book, adorned with flowers and trinkets, back to his former beloved in the far country.)

students of 19th century literature and romanticism might be able to say more about this, but I hope, it's somewhat helpful.

Of course it is an entirely different question how this irony can be and is put in music. I am not sure about Schumann, but I think Schubert took the Heine poems he set in "Schwanengesang" rather unironically. E.g. in "Atlas" I am pretty sure, Heine is not entirely serious, because it is so exaggerated: a whole world of pain, infinite joy or infinite pain etc. But the Schubert setting sound quite serious to me.

Ahhh, now I understand. This is what British people call "stiff upper lip"

It reminds me of a comment I read somewhere (can't remember where) about music in the court of Louis XIV.  The idea was that you had to appear nonchalant, insouciant, and yet feel deeply at the same time.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Listen to Lotte Lehmann hit that high note in "Ich grolle nicht"--it will blow your freakin' head off.

[aukhawk]

Of course it is an entirely different question how this irony can be and is put in music.

Surely the best way to convey irony is to not convey it at all.

[amw]

That's it?! Sure you don't have more conditions?

I could probably come up with more if I tried

I don't really know many that include the other four on the same disc with dichterliebe. I think that is the hardest part of the request.

Yes, that's what I found as well. Even the "HIP" versions prefer the final version, but with Schumann the superiority of the final versions tends to be questionable at best.

Maltman

Nope. Wobbly as

Peter Schreier

Better, especially at quiet dynamics. Shetler > Eschenbach. Doesn't seem to have a very good sense of sarcasm, though.

Hampson

Agree with you on his voice

Gerhaher

Brings the spirit across pretty well, good voice at quiet dynamics. When loud, tends to bellow. Otherwise seems good, but no sign of the 4 cut songs :<

Pregardien

Good, but insecure intonation at times. Staier's accompaniment might be the best part.

Bostridge

Not the best voice (esp in the low register) but probably the most musicality of the ones I've heard so far. Also has the most handsome album cover portrait. I'll keep him under consideration

Fassbaender

I only made it about two seconds into "Aus meine Tränen" I'm afraid. Do not think she is my thing.