"Casual" classical music listening?

[EigenUser]

I just found this very interesting blog post while I was searching for Matt Groening (of The Simpsons) and his interest in Messiaen. This pretty much exactly describes my listening habits right now. I bold-ed the parts of particular interest to me.

http://naturalharmonics.blogspot.com/2006/04/matt-groening-hearts-messiaen.html

In an interview this week at the Onion AV Club (click here for it), Matt Groening casually induces a dopamine rush for hundreds of music geeks: "I would prefer to listen to a French classical composer like Olivier Messiaen than to the pop hits of the day."

Somehow, this is the exact opposite of that time Condi Rice professed to love Brahms.

Groening's comment brings up an interesting question, though. I imagine that he's quite a busy guy -- "Life in Hell" / "The Simpsons" / "Futurama" revival -- but somehow he apparently finds time for... Messiaen?

'People are busier than ever!' is one of the modern era's more popular bromides. We all sigh and wish we had the leisure time of, say, Charlemagne. Irregardless of Holy Roman scheduling issues, though, people spit out that little sentence over and over because it very much feels true- and nothing makes its point more clearly than the music of Olivier Messiaen.

He wrote fairly long pieces. "Turangalîla" clocks in at around an hour-and-a-half, the "Catalogue des Oiseaux" takes three CDs (I've never gotten through it all), "Quaotour pour fin du Temps" is at least an hour, and there are lots and lots of pieces with names like "The Ascended Blood of the Lord" (in French) that usually go on for about a half-hour. These pieces don't get performed in public very often, so presumably Matt Groening listens to them -- as I do -- on a stereo or computer or iPod.

So, my big question is: where does classical music fit into people's schedules today?

I like a lot of pieces by Messiaen, but I can't imagine sitting down in the evening with a pair of headphones and listening to "Turangalîla" in one block. Even if I were following a score, I'd probably start to get sleepy or antsy- this is a long symphony, and even with the aura of immediacy and excitement that hangs in the air at a live concert it can start to weary the listener. As a result, %90 of the Messiaen that has entered my ears as been, in some sense, 'background music.'

This is a dirty, despicable thing for a classical music person to admit. Composers like Hindemith were always at pains to point out that the existence of background music cheapens the very nature of music, the idea being that true music -- concert music -- must be enjoyed with full concentration and no distractions. How many people have the luxury of approaching music like this today, though? Who, upon arriving home with their new album, reverently sets it up on their stereo/computer, takes the phone off the hook, sedates the dog, closes their eyes, and earnestly savors the music for an hour?

Well, not me. I would earnestly like to be that person, so serious and focused on music that whole evenings drift past as I lay on my back with my MDR-7506s caressing my ears, never growing bored or antsy. That never happens though. More likely I hear a fifteen minute tract of "Turangalîla" while running errands, the whole symphony divvied up over multiple days and multiple little occasions- tinkling piano and ondes martenot occupying the part of my attention that is not engaged in, say, checking email, then thunderous alien brass egging me on as I put away the groceries. This is a bit like if you could hang a Picasso in your hallway instead of traipsing down to the museum to stare at it earnestly- you gain a deep, pleasant famliarity with the painting by passing it constantly, but you unavoidably become a little numb to its initially striking features.*

Still, classical music as a culture -- and I do realize more and more that classical music is just a 'scene' with especially rich donors -- persists in pretending that people listen to its pieces in big blocks without interruption, that the vast majority of its listeners sit down with Beethoven 8 and listen to it as though they were reading a novel. Moreover, composers are still writing very long pieces (I am too, I realize). Honestly, there are probably only a few hundred people on the planet (and I think I'm being generous) that have made it through that six hour Feldman string quartet. This has the unusual effect, I think, of scaring off newcomers to classical music and making its existing fans feel guilty inside: on some level, you think that a good classical music fan, a serious one who really gets it, would be looking into SACD technology and sitting down in front of the stereo to smile dreamily for an hour of Schubert piano sonatas.

When I do sit down like this and listen to a piece 'properly' in a non-concert setting, it's almost always when I'm reading along in a score. Even this, it seems to me, is a little impure, like taking your Arden Shakespeare with you to the theater. It's music as study, not a pure aesthetic experience. Still, it's probably my favorite way of listening- I'm working through the complete Haydn symphonies right now, and without the scores I'd probably have been a little bored somewhere around the third CD.

So- am I alone? How do people listen to classical music today? Am I the only one who feels a trace of guilt that he's never heard Boulez' "Sur Incises" without groceries being involved? 

I can't say I've heard Boulez's Sur Incises while getting groceries...


...but I have heard his Repons while getting groceries . The only difference is that I don't really feel any guilt. I listen to sections of the Turangalila-Symphonie in the car very often -- also parts of Trois Petites Liturgies, L'Ascension, Oiseaux Exotiques, and Eclairs sur l'au-dela. Would most people here consider this to be some sort of mortal sin of classical music?

Even though I said I don't feel any guilt, sometimes I think that my enjoyment of classical music is more akin to how most people enjoy popular music than it is to most classical listeners.

[bigshot]

I can see Messiaen being good background music. I can't see backgrounding Bach's Art of the Fugue or Beethoven's late piano sonatas or quartets though. Some music requires different attention levels than others.

[EigenUser]

I can see Messiaen being good background music. I can't see backgrounding Bach's Art of the Fugue or Beethoven's late piano sonatas or quartets though. Some music requires different attention levels than others.

It is. As Karl once pointed out, the Turangalila-Symphonie is great car music. It's fun to listen to while driving on nice days with the windows down because it can be amusing to see other peoples' reactions. Especially on my way to class, when I drive through the main street of a college campus . Of course, most of my friends would recognize a car playing weird classical music loudly only as me.

Actually, funny story. Once (maybe two years ago, roughly) I was listening to the opening of the Ligeti Piano Concerto as I was waiting to turn from a parking lot. There was a panhandler sitting in the median strip and he walked over. He didn't ask for money. He wanted to know "what kind of music is that?" I told him Ligeti -- a modern classical music composer. He replied, sounding somewhat surprised, "You know, it ain't bad!" and walked back. That made my day.

Back to the topic, how do people on this forum usually listen to classical music? Do you sit down and do nothing else, or do you listen while you are doing something (viewing GMG, perhaps?).

[Ken B]

It is. As Karl once pointed out, the Turangalila-Symphonie is great car music. It's fun to listen to while driving on nice days with the windows down because it can be amusing to see other peoples' reactions. Especially on my way to class, when I drive through the main street of a college campus . Of course, most of my friends would recognize a car playing weird classical music loudly only as me.

Actually, funny story. Once (maybe two years ago, roughly) I was listening to the opening of the Ligeti Piano Concerto as I was waiting to turn from a parking lot. There was a panhandler sitting in the median strip and he walked over. He didn't ask for money. He wanted to know "what kind of music is that?" I told him Ligeti -- a modern classical music composer. He replied, sounding somewhat surprised, "You know, it ain't bad!" and walked back. That made my day.

Back to the topic, how do people on this forum usually listen to classical music? Do you sit down and do nothing else, or do you listen while you are doing something (viewing GMG, perhaps?).

Mostly whilst doing something else, reading, web surfing, cooking, plotting world domination.  Sometimes I just listen, but not as often as I did when younger, or should. Right now I am listening to Haydn quartets for example.

[North Star]

Back to the topic, how do people on this forum usually listen to classical music? Do you sit down and do nothing else, or do you listen while you are doing something (viewing GMG, perhaps?).

Both, but most of it while doing something else - I don't know if it's background listening, as I might well be paying more attention to the music than whatever it is I'm doing at the same time (checking e-mail, GMG, Flickr, Facebook, BBC, etc). I can only listen to music on my computer now, so of course I'm on the computer while listening. I also find that it helps me to concentrate on the music if I do something at the same time. Right now I am listening to Messiaen's Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum

[mn dave]

My laptop is my stereo so yes I am doing something else while I listen, like typing this for example.

[Karl Henning]

Right now I am listening to Messiaen's Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum

I remember the first I heard that one, a live performance by the Eastman Wind Ensemble in Rochester.  What a great piece!

[EigenUser]

Both, but most of it while doing something else - I don't know if it's background listening, as I might well be paying more attention to the music than whatever it is I'm doing at the same time (checking e-mail, GMG, Flickr, Facebook, BBC, etc). I can only listen to music on my computer now, so of course I'm on the computer while listening. I also find that it helps me to concentrate on the music if I do something at the same time. Right now I am listening to Messiaen's Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum

Make sure to duck your head for the gong crescendos in the third movement!

I remember the first I heard that one, a live performance by the Eastman Wind Ensemble in Rochester.  What a great piece!

I would love to see that work live. It is my favorite Messiaen. A confusing, but compelling, combination of austere and powerful. Like, not even emotionally powerful. Just powerful.

[Florestan]

During daytime, I usually listen while doing something else, like browsing GMG or other sites, or reading. Late at night I only listen, in complete darkness usually.

It is not infrequently, though, that even when listening while doing something else, the music grips me so completely that I stop whatever else I'm doing and concentrate only on listening.

For instance, this morning I was listening to Mahler 7 with Klemperer and NPO (second time in a few days; the first time was later at night and frankly I fell asleep somewhere halfway through the first movement.  ) while browsing GMG, but after a few minutes I gave up reading and started to crisscross my room while air-conducting --- and this all the way through the very last note. It's a fabulous recording, although if you like your Mahler to sound completely neurotic, even psychotic at times, Klemperer is your man. It goes without saying that after this tour de force, both spiritually and physically --- air-conducting for almost 2 hours, I mean  --- I badly needed an anti-depressant, both musically and visually, which was promptly delivered by Yuja Wang, Kurt Masur and the Verbier Festival Orchestra playing Mendelssohn PC #2. 

[ibanezmonster]

What is this "non-background music" mentioned in the article?

[Karl Henning]

Go to a concert, buddy.

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[Daverz]

While I'll plop down in the sweet spot in front of my floorstanding speakers and stay there for hours, I'm usually browsing the web with the same iPad I use to control my music server.  I don't like to read anything that requires or absorbs my complete attention for very long when listening to music, though.

Sometimes I'll turn out the lights to listen without any distractions.

[jochanaan]

If something I like is playing, it's at the front of my mind, no matter what else I'm doing.

[EigenUser]

If something I like is playing, it's at the front of my mind, no matter what else I'm doing.

That's often what ends up happening to me. I posted this picture somewhere before, but it seems appropriate here. This is what happens when I listened to Jeux while studying for a math class last year (right-click 'view image' to see right-side up).

[Gurn Blanston]

Both, but most of it while doing something else - I don't know if it's background listening, as I might well be paying more attention to the music than whatever it is I'm doing at the same time (checking e-mail, GMG, Twitter, etc). I can only listen to music on my computer now, so of course I'm on the computer while listening. I also find that it helps me to concentrate on the music if I do something at the same time. Right now I am listening to Haydn's Opus 77 string quartets in a new disc by The Kuijken Quartet.

That should teach a lesson about living in a different time zone, too. 

[North Star]

Both, but most of it while doing something else - I don't know if it's background listening, as I might well be paying more attention to the music than whatever it is I'm doing at the same time (checking e-mail, GMG, Twitter, etc). I can only listen to music on my computer now, so of course I'm on the computer while listening. I also find that it helps me to concentrate on the music if I do something at the same time. Right now I am listening to Haydn's Opus 77 string quartets in a new disc by The Kuijken Quartet.

That should teach a lesson about living in a different time zone, too. 

I see what you did there. 

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

For me, music, esp. classical music, forms an implicit agreement (an implied contract, if you're of legal bent) between composer and listener.  I believe it's as much a responsibility of the listener to attend to the work as it is for the composer to give me something beautiful, moving, thoughtful, disturbing, insightful, at the very least interesting.  Some works clearly require more Achtung than others and Satie famously and laughingly created music deliberately as background (but perhaps only to create for it all the more attn. - Satie is 'tricksy' as the Gollum might have called him).   For me, this standard is loosened with acquaintance : I like listening to Beethoven quartets while waxing the car, for example, a habit of many years that would shock some, but for me elevates an odious task considerably!  (FYI: there's a BIG difference in resultant muscle strain between car waxings with Ludwig's assistance and w/o!).  But for works I have never heard before, time is set aside for full attn.  I might add that I've largely succeeded getting out of the bad habit of finding fault with works I dislike - it could mean a lack of ability in me to perceive its worth as much as its composer's lack of skill or focus, or lack of an éclair that day for one or both of us.  I might add that with advancing years I'm increasingly grateful to the many composers - music appreciation, indeed! - who've given me such tremendous experiences - the least I can give them is time (on which music, in fact all art) is totally dependent.   

[Karl Henning]

For me, music, esp. classical music, forms an implicit agreement (an implied contract, if you're of legal bent) between composer and listener.  I believe it's as much a responsibility of the listener to attend to the work as it is for the composer to give me something beautiful, moving, thoughtful, disturbing, insightful, at the very least interesting.  Some works clearly require more Achtung than others and Satie famously and laughingly created music deliberately as background (but perhaps only to create for it all the more attn. - Satie is 'tricksy' as the Gollum might have called him).   For me, this standard is loosened with acquaintance : I like listening to Beethoven quartets while waxing the car, for example, a habit of many years that would shock some, but for me elevates an odious task considerably!  (FYI: there's a BIG difference in resultant muscle strain between car waxings with Ludwig's assistance and w/o!).  But for works I have never heard before, time is set aside for full attn.  I might add that I've largely succeeded getting out of the bad habit of finding fault with works I dislike - it could mean a lack of ability in me to perceive its worth as much as its composer's lack of skill or focus, or lack of an éclair that day for one or both of us.  I might add that with advancing years I'm increasingly grateful to the many composers - music appreciation, indeed! - who've given me such tremendous experiences - the least I can give them is time (on which music, in fact all art) is totally dependent.   

Good post overall;  but especially (IMO) what I've highlighted.

I feel comfortable with the degree of "casual" listening I do;  but the bottom line is, in most cases, I don't feel I know the piece properly unless I have at least once given it undivided attention.

. . .  or lack of an éclair that day for one or both of us.

Sending the pastry cart directly

[Florestan]

I believe it's as much a responsibility of the listener to attend to the work as it is for the composer to give me something beautiful, moving, thoughtful, disturbing, insightful, at the very least interesting. 

I disagree. I didn't ask anyone to compose anything, and I have no responsibility whatsoever to any composer, to like, or try like, any of his compositions. 

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

I disagree. I didn't ask anyone to compose anything, and I have no responsibility whatsoever to any composer, to like, or try like, any of his compositions. 

Florestan, you're welcome to disagree all you'd care to, though my post was intended for the purpose of sharing an approach that works for me (please note such phrases as "for me," "I believe," etc.) and not so much for approval or dis - though discussion is surely welcome!    Herr EigenUser's initial question was a fairly personal and individual one - I responded personally and with my own individual point of view; if you've found a good approach to listening, particularly with new and thornier works, or one that works generally for you, I'm all ears.   

Since you've brought it up, you may not literally have "asked anyone to compose anything," but if you've purchased a CD or turned on the radio (I know you have), you've, in a sense, asked for music to be composed, played, recorded, and made available to you.  From my perspective, this is the foundation for the implied "aesthetic contract" between listener and composer that I have personally found rewarding.  True enough, what you do with your CD is your own affair.  Perhaps responsibility is too strong a word for your taste, but your negative approach seems defensive, unhealthy, and static to me.  Ultimately, the responsibility is to yourself - to be open to what a composer has to say, describe or suggest in the hope of engaging with them and to learn or experience something new or anew.  Surely the question is more significant than merely "liking" a composer as you've couched it.