Where were you when it happened?

Started by milk, September 11, 2014, 06:54:48 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Todd

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 11, 2014, 09:30:39 AMI remember 9/11 because I was with other people at the time and they always talk about it. I don't understand that. It's a terrible event, but no less tragic than the thousands of other lives lost every year, and noone gives them the time of day.


Of course 9/11, or <insert other incident where a large number of people die unexpectedly at once>, is more tragic than the thousands or millions of lives lost every year in more mundane ways, unless you were referring to those killed in war specifically, but even then, the ongoing murder of people in war is common, it is what is expected.  Perhaps a really big or atrocious battle or slaughter will stick out, but when carnage is the norm, a few dead bodies don't matter as (relatively) much.

9/11, in particular, also has had a much more significant impact on people not directly impacted by the events, including through the ensuing wars and expansion of government power.  It is not just an event itself that is important and that influences memory, it is everything that comes after, too.  Pearl Harbor would be a good, similar example from an earlier era. 

Also, I'm not sure what your point is about not remembering the day of the week or time of year with respect to the Challenger explosion.  Mundane specifics like that are bound to fade from memory; it is the extraordinary aspect of the event that lingers in memory.  I can think of even happy events where I can't recall the day of week.  For instance, I very clearly remember the birth of my children in great detail, but I'd have to consult a calendar to know the days of the week when they were born.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Karl Henning

Right, the experience is a piece of your life.  The day of the week is just a detail.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 11, 2014, 09:30:39 AM
I think this is the issue. I don't view most of those events as 'momentus' in the way you do. Maybe it sounds callous to others, but should they have the importance they have? I don't really believe in belaboring the past. Learn from it and move on (but that doesn't mean forget it either). For example, the death of Lennon was tragic, but I haven't a clue where I was when it happened. Same with Reagan assassination attempt. I remember the Challenger only because I saw it on TV, but I cannot tell you what day of the week or even time of year. I remember 9/11 because I was with other people at the time and they always talk about it. I don't understand that. It's a terrible event, but no less tragic than the thousands of other lives lost every year, and noone gives them the time of day.

I don't know it's a question of dwelling on stuff; it just is what it is. Nor is it more (or less) tragic. It IS however, more memorable, simply because of a variety of circumstances. I saw JFK speak in person, and on TV many times. I never even knew 2 month old Mbele Biafra existed when he starved to death. So, whose passing will I remember then? I think in painting yourself blasé, you are being unrealistic, or else you are totally abnormal in that respect, which I say in a non-judgmental way.  :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Ken B


mc ukrneal

Quote from: Todd on September 11, 2014, 10:08:30 AM

Of course 9/11, or <insert other incident where a large number of people die unexpectedly at once>, is more tragic than the thousands or millions of lives lost every year in more mundane ways,
Why? And should this be the case? I knew someone who was killed in the towers - a terrible fate. But I also have a friend who's parent was killed in cold blood - also a terrible fate. Why should the first person get a plaque and a monumnet and a constant reminder of their bravery and such, while the second person gets nothing? Why do we place more value on the lives of those lost at 9/11? I don't trivialize these events and I understand their importance on our history. But it seems to me we are missing the boat.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Jay F

#25
I remember the Challenger because I was on vacation in FL with a friend, and he wouldn't stop bitching because he was missing his soap operas.

I was IMing with a friend in DC on 9/11, when all of a sudden, he typed "OMG, TURN ON YOUR TV." I've never known whether I was looking at it actually happening (the second tower) or not because of how many times it was repeated.

The nuns marched us over to church to pray for the immortal soul of our president on 11/22/63.

I was talking on the phone with a friend when the Reagan shooting broke into whatever was on TV, which was on mute.

John Lennon is the only one I don't remember. But after "How Do You Sleep?", he was not my favorite Beatle.

mc ukrneal

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 11, 2014, 10:16:16 AM
I don't know it's a question of dwelling on stuff; it just is what it is. Nor is it more (or less) tragic. It IS however, more memorable, simply because of a variety of circumstances. I saw JFK speak in person, and on TV many times. I never even knew 2 month old Mbele Biafra existed when he starved to death. So, whose passing will I remember then? I think in painting yourself blasé, you are being unrealistic, or else you are totally abnormal in that respect, which I say in a non-judgmental way.  :)

8)
Blase? No - I think you misunderstand me. I am against dwelling in the past, which also means I don't like traditions. Perhaps my view is colored by the fact that the twin towers is just another terrorist attack. The reason it is not just another terrorist attack has to do with the fact of where it occurred.  People were living in a bubble (and may still be) if they thought/think it couldn't/won't happen (again), or that someone won't try to. By doing what we do, we give the event more power, not less. It seems to me that we haven't really moved on and have drawn many of the wrong conclusions.
Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Ken B

Quote from: Jay F on September 11, 2014, 10:23:30 AM
I remember the Challenger because I was on vacation in FL with a friend, and he wouldn't stop bitching because he was missing his soap operas.

I was IMing with a friend in DC on 9/11, when all of a sudden, he typed "OMG, TURN ON YOUR TV." I've never known whether I was looking at it actually happening (the second tower) or not because of how many times it was repeated.

The nuns marched us over to church to pray for the immortal soul of our president on 11/22/63.

I was talking on the phone with a friend when the Reagan shooting broke into whatever was on TV, which was on mute.

John Lennon is the only one I don't remember. But he was not my favorite Beatle, esp. after "How Do You Sleep?"
I remember the Lennon shooting clearly. I was doing homework in group theory on the floor in front of the TV. The idea of murdering a Beatle was just to so shocking.

Todd

Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 11, 2014, 10:21:44 AMWhy?


I explained why.



Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 11, 2014, 10:21:44 AMAnd should this be the case?


I can't answer this, but I can say that it wasn't the death of the specific person you knew on 9/11 that makes the event more meaningful to people around the world to this day than the murder of your friend's parent.  The significance of 9/11 is not about me or you and who we may have known.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Jay F

#29
Quote from: mc ukrneal on September 11, 2014, 08:00:32 AM
I was actually watching the Challenger live.

Personally, I don't understand the need to remember where I was for this type of event. But then I don't understand why people go to cemetaries (I mean I do, but they can do the same thing anywhere).
I don't remember because I need to remember. I remember because I remember. I have a memory. It works. It would be an issue for me if I didn't remember.

Quote from: Todd on September 11, 2014, 10:08:30 AMAlso, I'm not sure what your point is about not remembering the day of the week or time of year with respect to the Challenger explosion.
I didn't know I knew this, but when I googled "day of the week january 28 1986" it turned out to have been a Tuesday, the day I guessed.

And the moon landing was on a Sunday.

And Reagan got shot on a Monday.

I didn't know I knew these things.