Why do you NOT like your favourite composer?

[EigenUser]

I am in two minds about Bruckner's finales. On the one hand, my patience is severely stretched by the overblown finales of 4,5 and especially 8. On the other hand, I have to agree that in the 7th the finale might be to light for the preceding movements, even more so in the 6th. Disregarding the overall balance of the whole symphony, I just do not care all that much for the music of the 6th's finale.
The miracle of the 7th is for me how Bruckner could write such a melodic and lyrical first movement while remaining in his monumental personal style. Of course the adagio of the 7th is also great and justly famous, but this is where Bruckner excels anyway.

I find it very interesting how Ligeti specifically singled out the adagio of Bruckner's 7th as being related to his own Lontano. Parts of it sound do sound like the 7th, but played as if the orchestra had a 'sustain' pedal constantly held down.

[amw]

I am in two minds about Bruckner's finales. On the one hand, my patience is severely stretched by the overblown finales of 4,5 and especially 8.

Hmm. The finale of the 8th is, by far, my favourite part of the symphony. It's totally over-the-top in a charming way. By contrast, except for a couple of 'famous' moments I don't seem to get on well with the first two movements.

(And pace Sarge I've read something about Bruckner's own 'programme' for the symphony, something about Deutscher Michel meeting the Cossacks and so forth. It seemed to fit a lot better than the usually stated platitudes about heaven and angels and such.)

I think it's partly the 'weaknesses' of Bruckner's finales that make the 9th completion possible in the first place. (I do recommend everyone listen to the Rattle/Berlin recording btw.) It's most valuable not as a piece of music in its own right but as an insight into the composer's working process, in that it is a reconstruction of a literal work in progress. Even if Bruckner did in fact finish the entire sketch and the missing folios are in the possession of secretive Austrian collectors as rumored, the movement would have been revised extensively over the following years as he prepared a final copy. It sounds like authentic Bruckner, but it also reveals quite nakedly how limited Bruckner's materials would be to start with. Much like with Beethoven whose initial ideas are often relentlessly pedestrian only to eventually be refined into something that can actually be developed. With Bruckner, as we can see from the completed symphonies, not much refining actually happened.

Bruckner is sort of like blue cheese to me; an acquired taste that often I can't stand, but sometimes crave. I know the 6th, 8th and 9th now, and have heard the 4th in concert. The 9th is probably my favourite, with or without finale. I suppose its substitution of grim defiance for the usual triumphalism may play a role. (Even the end of the reconstructed finale doesn't sound much like the typical 'Bruckner coda' one comes to expect with its 'leap of faith', more like the orchestra flipping the bird to the evil demons as they close in to eat it alive. Not a bad achievement musically, considering that all the team had to go on was Bruckner's bass line.)

EigenUser - Listen to Rozhdestvensky's 6th. He uses an earlier (incorrect) edition of the symphony that puts the opening violin rhythm in the timpani at the very end, presumably on purpose (I guess he thought the existing ending was a bit anticlimactic?). I don't know who made that edition, maybe Mahler? Anyway it's a good performance, pity about the orchestra (and sound quality)

[Jaakko Keskinen]

Debussy's compositions may sometimes seem too improvisatory. This is not always bad trait, in fact many of my favorite compositions from the man profit from this improvisation a great deal. And other composers such as Sibelius also have delightful compositions (The Bard) which seem improvisatory and work just well. But in case of some compositions, I sometimes feel like they should have more of a purpose, a goal. This doesn't bother me that much, after all Debussy is one of my all-time favorite composers.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

My favourite composer....far too many revisions! Which is the definitive version of anything? Is anything even finished yet? How about orchestrating the rest of Notations at least?

[Mirror Image]

Debussy's compositions may sometimes seem too improvisatory. This is not always bad trait, in fact many of my favorite compositions from the man profit from this improvisation a great deal. And other composers such as Sibelius also have delightful compositions (The Bard) which seem improvisatory and work just well. But in case of some compositions, I sometimes feel like they should have more of a purpose, a goal. This doesn't bother me that much, after all Debussy is one of my all-time favorite composers.

Sometimes it's not about the destination but the journey.

[Brahmsian]

I don't think I "dislike" any of my favourite composers?

Perhaps I wish Bruckner had had more confidence in himself and in his abilities so that he didn't have so many people putting their two cents and influencing him, and thus allowing Bruckner to second guess himself.

Perhaps if Brahms hadn't been such a perfectionist and burned so many works, we would have a more vast oeuvre of his with some additional outstanding compositions, but that is just mere speculation on my part.  He left us with more than enough works on unimaginable quality.  More than many...more than most.

[CRMS]

What I dislike about Sibelius is that he gave up and spent so much time doing nothing that I care about   I DO hope that someone finally locates a full copy of his 8th!

[Mirror Image]

What I dislike about Sibelius is that he gave up and spent so much time doing nothing that I care about   I DO hope that someone finally locates a full copy of his 8th!

I highly doubt it considering he burned the manuscript himself.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I actually think that because of our high expectations for Sibelius's 8th symphony, if it is ever performed in full it might actually end up being a bit of a let down. Our own imaginations probably imagine something potentially more amazing than what his 8th actually could be to us if it exists.......

It could have been like the Star Wars prequels, who knows?

[CRMS]

I actually think that because of our high expectations for Sibelius's 8th symphony, if it is ever performed in full it might actually end up being a bit of a let down. Our own imaginations probably imagine something potentially more amazing than what his 8th actually could be to us if it exists.......

It could have been like the Star Wars prequels, who knows?

The received wisdom is indeed that the score was destroyed, but we can hope  

You are probably too young to remember when both Kullervo and the original first section of Mahler's Klagende Lied finally came fully into the daylight.  They had both been pieces that we had heard and wondered about and had only had very, very limited exposure pre WW2.  Despite both being early works by the composers, they still presented a fascinating addition to what we know about them.  Even if Sibelius' 8th did show up and wasn't up to the level of the earlier works, it would be great to know which direction he was taking after the 7th.  As it is we can only guess from the Tempest music.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

The received wisdom is indeed that the score was destroyed, but we can hope  

You are probably too young to remember when both Kullervo and the original first section of Mahler's Klagende Lied finally came fully into the daylight.  They had both been pieces that we had heard and wondered about and had only had very, very limited exposure pre WW2.  Despite both being early works by the composers, they still presented a fascinating addition to what we know about them.  Even if Sibelius' 8th did show up and wasn't up to the level of the earlier works, it would be great to know which direction he was taking after the 7th.  As it is we can only guess from the Tempest music.

That's true, and I am not old enough to know of a world where even the Internet did not exist to look up those works you mentioned! I wonder if the experience could be comparable to hearing a world premiere by one of my favourite composers and thoroughly enjoying the new work though....