Haydn symphonies

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

This thread inspired me to whip out my early Naxos issue of 44-88-104, cond. Barry Wordsworth with a Slovak chamber orch. whose name I can't remember now. Wow, it's really good - compares favorably with some of the bigger names I've heard.

[kishnevi]

HIPsters will not approve, but... having read about Solti's set of the London Symphonies for years, I finally obtained it last month:

[asin]B0001Y4JHK[/asin]

First impressions?  A very bright, open sound, with superb woodwind playing and detail.  On the whole, tempi are brisk but not rushed; the interpretations are more straightforward than I expected, with nary a hint of Solti's reputed brutality or nervousness (except in No. 103, which struck me as the least satisfying performance in the set).

[fistpump]
Yes!  Finally someone else pays attention to a great set!
[/fistpump]

Re Fey
The couple of CDs I have from him did not turn me off, but did not enthuse me enough to keep on collecting them. There are enough other fish in that sea.

Speaking of which, the new box Bruggen symphonies is now en route to me from JPC, along with the Festetics box.  (Roughly 82€ for both, with shipping, no VAT, and a coupon for 20% off).

[jfdrex]

[fistpump]
Yes!  Finally someone else pays attention to a great set!
[/fistpump]

Re Fey
The couple of CDs I have from him did not turn me off, but did not enthuse me enough to keep on collecting them. There are enough other fish in that sea.

Speaking of which, the new box Bruggen symphonies is now en route to me from JPC, along with the Festetics box.  (Roughly 82€ for both, with shipping, no VAT, and a coupon for 20% off).

Thanks.  Spotting a cheap, gently used set on Amazon recently, I purchased the Solti more out of curiosity than anything.  It joins Klemperer, Bernstein, Szell, Davis, Jochum, HvK, and Tate, inter alia, on my non-HIP Haydn London shelf.  (Along with Harnoncourt--a grudging nod to the HIPsters--with the non-HIPster Concertgebouw. )

Speaking of curiosity, I've just remembered that I own one Fey Haydn disk...  Will have to give that a second spin & see if it's a Fey Nonny No for me.

[Moonfish]

HIPsters will not approve, but... having read about Solti's set of the London Symphonies for years, I finally obtained it last month:

[asin]B0001Y4JHK[/asin]

First impressions?  A very bright, open sound, with superb woodwind playing and detail.  On the whole, tempi are brisk but not rushed; the interpretations are more straightforward than I expected, with nary a hint of Solti's reputed brutality or nervousness (except in No. 103, which struck me as the least satisfying performance in the set).

Interesting post! I feel that Solti generally is a bit under-appreciated (apart from his opera recordings (esp. Wagner)). The more I listen to his recordings the more I admire his legacy.

[jfdrex]

Interesting post! I feel that Solti generally is a bit under-appreciated (apart from his opera recordings (esp. Wagner)). The more I listen to his recordings the more I admire his legacy.

Although Solti is best known as a conductor of large-scale late romantic repertoire (Wagner, Bruckner, Mahler, Richard Strauss), I find his performances of Haydn in this set quite bracing.  They've got a lot of zest but aren't overbearing.  Solti may approach Haydn as a proto-Beethoven pre-romantic, but he keeps things in classical proportion.

This morning I did a quick back-to-back comparison of Solti and Jochum in the first movement of No. 99.  I came to no earth-shaking conclusions; I enjoy them both.  But the recorded sound in the Solti is more "present" and transparent and colorful than the sound in the Jochum, which is more homogenized and "grayer."  In other words--to make a broad generalization--"typical" Decca sound vs. "typical" DG sound.

[Cosi bel do]

I now listened to the first 11 volumes by Thomas Fey. I found that the overall quality of these performances increased with the time, vol. 9-11 are really good. The orchestra improves itself, and the engineering gets better too. It still is a little too formal when there's a strong competition in a symphony, but there are also excellent performances, in symphonies 57 and 61 for instance.
There's 11 other volumes, but I think I'll wait that the dozen or so remaining volumes are released, and that a box with the full cycle is available. I have many other versions to hear anyway...

Here is my updated list then :

1. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
2. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
3. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
4. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
5. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
6. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
7. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
8. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
9. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
10. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
11. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
12. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
13. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
14. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
15. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
16. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
17. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
18. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
19. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
20. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
21. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
22. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
23. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
24. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
25. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
26. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
27. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
28. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
29. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
30. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
31. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
32. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
33. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
34. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
35. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert
36. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
37. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
38. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
39. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
40. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
41. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
42. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
43. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment
44. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
45. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien /// Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
46. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
47. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert 
48. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
49. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Gottfried von der Goltz & Freiburger Barockorchester
50. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
51. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
52. Sigiswald Kuijken / La Petite Bande /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
53. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
54. Christopher Hogwood / AAM (2nd version of the symphony)
55. Hermann Scherchen / Wiener Symphoniker
56. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
57. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
58. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert
59. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
60. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
61. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
62. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
63. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
64. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
65. Trevor Pinnock / English Concert /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
66. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica
67. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM
68. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
69. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
70. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
71. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
72. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
73. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concentus musicus Wien
74. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
75. Thomas Fey / Heidelberger Sinfoniker
76. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
77. Christopher Hogwood / AAM
78. Roy Goodman / Hanover Band
79. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
80. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
81. Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
82. Herbert von Karajan / Berliner Philharmoniker /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
83. Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
84. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
85. Guy van Waas / Les Agrémens
86. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
87. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica & Roy Goodman / Hanover Band /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Harnoncourt / Concentus Musicus Wien
88. Wilhelm Furtwängler / Berliner Philharmoniker
89. Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
90. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Bruno Weil / Tafelmusik
91. Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century
92. Sigiswald Kuijken / La Petite Bande
93. Thomas Beecham / Royal Philharmonic Orchestra /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
94. Wilhelm Furtwängler / Wiener Philharmoniker /// Pau Casals / Marlboro Festival Orchestra
95. Pau Casals / Marlboro Festival Orchestra /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
96. Christopher Hogwood / AAM /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
97. George Szell / Cleveland Orchestra (1957) /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
98. Ferenc Fricsay / RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
99. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century
100. Ferenc Fricsay / RIAS-Symphonie-Orchester Berlin /// Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic /// Christopher Hogwood / AAM /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
101. Arturo Toscanini / NBC Symphony Orchestra /// Fritz Reiner (and "his Symphony Orchestra") /// Frans Brüggen / Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
102. Leonard Bernstein / New York Philharmonic 1962 /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
103. Antal Dorati / Philharmonia Hungarica /// Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest
104. Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Concertgebouworkest /// Sigiswald Kuijken / Petite Bande
105. (Sinfonia Concertante) Wiener Staatsopernorchester / Hermann Scherchen
107. (Symphonie "A") Christopher Hogwood / AAM
108. (Symphonie "B") Christopher Hogwood / AAM

Favourite cycles for :
- Paris symphonies : 1. Harnoncourt / 2. Weil / 3. Bernstein / 4. Kuijken / 5. Brüggen / 6. Goodman & Karajan ex aequo / 8. Dorati & Fey ex aequo.
- London symphonies : ...

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I rather like Rattle's disc with 60, 70, 90

I just acquired this one and listened to #90. It's really good, with a strong improvisational feel - I think there's even some actual improv on the part of the wind players, in repeats and so forth. And a cheerful feeling throughout, as if everyone involved is having fun.

#90 is one of my favorite little-known Haydn symphonies. Listening to it this time, I wondered if Beethoven got the idea for the super-long coda to his #8 from this Haydn symphony, where the false endings add up to one super-long coda.

Rattle seems to be a real fan of this symphony. I heard him do it with the BPO on tour, and he has re-recorded it with them.

[Ken B]

I cannot answer directly.  10 or 15 years ago I tried a disc of HvK conducting Mozart, hearing which nearly brought me to tears.

And not tears of joy ....

So, mine is not a genuine opinion; but in a footnote, indicate that I have no confidence

I have never really liked his Mozart. His Haydn is okay big band Haydn, but I find it misses the life and zip.  Not anywhere near a top recommendation from me. 

Kuijken and Weil for me, never heard Harnoncourt or Fey.

[alkan]

From time to time, on the radio, I hear a Haydn symphony played by Thomas Fey.     I have never come across anything quite like it.   Without exception, all of his interpretations are appalling.

The latest one I have heard is the fugal finale of No 70 with the Heidelberg orchestra on the WROC label (worst recordings of the century) .    The adjective "grotesque" immediately springs to mind, closely followed by insensitive, arrogant and ridiculous.    Meaningless accelerations, decelerations, exaggerations, .....     It seems that he is determined simply to distort and disfigure this beautiful music, which simply needs to be played "straight" and sensitively.    There is no place in Haydn for a huge conductor ego.

Thomas Fey should be banned for life from playing Haydn and should stick to conducting a bus ....

Anyone feel the same    (or care to disagree ... )     

[Jo498]

I do not think Fey's tempo changes are (always or most of the time) meaningless. But I can agree that they are often exaggerated, although I do not share your verdict in the end. Fey brings a lot of attention to details, including sonorities which is good but he exaggerates many things. The problem is that most alternative recordings tend to a certain blandness and overlooking of details... so while I do not rush to buy every new issue of Fey's I am quite happy to have his interpretations as an alternative in many cases.
IIRC Goodman is not bad in #70 but it could be that he plays a version without trumpets (or this is in 75, I compared his and Fey's a few months ago in both pieces) which is less effective than Fey's brassy one. Rattle has a good 70 from the early 90s (but he exaggerates dynamics with some pppp passages).

[Mookalafalas]

I have never really liked his Mozart. His Haydn is okay big band Haydn, but I find it misses the life and zip.  Not anywhere near a top recommendation from me. 

Kuijken and Weil for me, never heard Harnoncourt or Fey.

  Weil is really fun--but part of it is energetic tempos and TERRIFIC recording quality.  I need to listen more, but my first impression was of a sacrifice of gravitas and depth in his interpretations.  I really like Harnoncourt a lot.  Dynamic, HIP-ish sound elements, but with some serious heft.  For me, Harnoncourt really lets you have your cake and eat it too.   

[AKILEGO]

Isn't a  shame Bernstein didn't record more of Haydn's symphonies. As a matter of personal taste, nobody comes near him with that witty, happy sound, in contrast probably with Haydn's dismal romantic life. A close second would be Jochum, way ahead of the Prussian armada - Abendroth, Busch, Furtwangler, Knappertsbusch and then Bohm and Karajan. The symphony marathoners - Dorati, Goberman, Maerzendorfer, and more recently Marriner, Davis and  Fischer certainly deserve an accolade for their effort. Where is Beecham? Well, Beecham sounds always like Beecham. You have my permission to shoot me.

[Sergeant Rock]

You have my permission to shoot me.

You left out the best: Szell, Fey and Norrington/Stuttgart 


             AKILEGO

[Purusha]

Klemperer is my favored. Which is extraordinary, because never in a million years i would have imagined his style would have fitted Haydn in the least. But it does. You should try his performance of the Miracle symphony (probably my favored Haydn symphony at the moment). It's just great.

Unfortunately, they don't have it on youtube, but they have The Clock symphony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALDTuxiw9RE

[San Antone]

 

Unfortunately none of these are complete, but all offer period performances of many of the symphonies.

Freiburger Barockorchester has also recorded some of the symphonies.

[Karl Henning]

Isn't a shame Bernstein didn't record more of Haydn's symphonies.

Agreed!

[Purusha]

Isn't a  shame Bernstein didn't record more of Haydn's symphonies. As a matter of personal taste, nobody comes near him with that witty, happy sound

His Paris set is extraordinary, but i wasn't taken as much in his London set (which is still good, mind you).

Between him and Harnoncourt (his Paris set is one of the best HIP recordings ever made, IMHO), i never felt the need to look for more in the Paris symphonies. The same cannot be said for the London symphonies. Many good sets, but not one which i would think to be "definitive".

[North Star]

 

Unfortunately none of these are complete, but all offer period performances of many of the symphonies.

Freiburger Barockorchester has also recorded some of the symphonies.

And there's also Weil & Tafelmusik, also incomplete.
[asin]B001U0HB60[/asin]

[Jo498]

Harnoncourt for the Paris set and the four discs with the Concentus (6-8, 30, 31, 45, 53, 59, 60, 69, 73), less for the "London" set, although there is a lot of good stuff in there as well.
Brüggen at least for his London set (I am not through with the rest of the box but had the London separately years ago).

[San Antone]

I'm wondering if this thread should be merged into the primary Haydn thread?

Gurn?