Skimpy Recordings - Can You Top This?

[springrite]

A D960 only.  Two things make this alright.  First, it is one of the greatest recordings of the work, bettering Kovacevich's EMI recording.  Second, it was part of a fundraiser if memory serves.

Correct, thus the candle on the top left corner.

[Brian]

Deutsche Grammophon issued a Giulini Beethoven's Fifth by itself. This was actually very common in the 1980s - people were still used to LPs, so labels issued LP-length (or much shorter) programs on disc.

[Jay F]

A rather short LP was Carlos Kleiber's Beethoven 5th, probably around 32 min. or so. I had this as a cassette tape.

Each of Kleiber's Nos. 5 and 7 was originally released as a single CD. HvK's 1970s set were such a better deal on CD, I ended up not buying the Kleibers until DG released them on a single CD in the 1990s (IIRC).

[Jo498]

I also did not buy Kleiber's Beethoven on CD before they were combined in the "Originals" series. I had received the cassette tape as a gift.

A difficulty for Beethoven's 5th on LP is that you cannot split between mvmts 3 and 4. So these have to go on the second disc with together 13-16 min (depending on tempo and repeats). To squeeze 30-32 min. on one side gets you worse sound, especially on the inner grooves (so in this case the fortissimo coda of the finale, not good), so I guess that it was often alone on one LP in LP times; you can squeeze an ouverture after the finale on the B side, though.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

25 minutes. $17.76 new.

OMG! 

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

To exploit the post-trauma market . . . John Adams as social vampire   

At least it's over quickly!

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

The Nojima is so good that it is worth the money nonetheless.

Yes, I've thoroughly enjoyed mine!  What's funny about that is I would never have given it a moment's thought if Reference hadn't included that 'disclaimer'!  (and I think there was talk of it in Fanfare)

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

Thank you for your postings!  It's worse than I thought!

[Holden]

This one is short on time too, 36 minutes - another recording that originally appeared on LP.

[ZauberdrachenNr.7]

This one is short on time too, 36 minutes - another recording that originally appeared on LP.

Hey, I have that disk and didn't even think of it for the skimpy collective! - though so deserving...

[amw]

I imagine that the original release might have had more meat to it

Yep, the original release was this: http://www.allmusic.com/album/schoenberg-chamber-music-vol-3-mw0001819166 (there's a used copy on Amazon FR for the absolute bargain price of €109...)

None of the rest of those performances have been reissued on disc... only the Verklärte Nacht... on a full price 28 minute CD. Naïve is pretty, well, you know, if they really think this is going to sell records.

NMC has a full price 19 minute CD of Finnissy. Perhaps not the best way to advocate for complex, little-known modern music. *sigh*
[asin]B000009NO9[/asin]

[Madiel]

I have to admit, I find the classical music expectation that a disc be filled up to be a very interesting one.

Firstly because no so much expectation exists in popular music. While some artists do seem to feel the need to put on as many songs as possible, often this ends up being frowned upon as meaning the quality of an album is diluted. Most pop listeners would prefer a 45-minute "tight" album to a 75-minute one with songs they regard as "filler".

Secondly, because I rarely listen to a CD of classical music straight through unless it really is a single work that happens to be about the right length to fill a disc. If a disc has 3 or 4 works on it, it's most unlikely that I'll listen to them all in one sitting.

There is certainly an argument that a shorter disc should cost a bit less. Popular music tends to address this by labelling something as an "EP", but even so the line is a bit blurry. Some of the longer EPs I have are almost the same length as the shorter albums. It so happens that today I've been listening to a 33-minute EP and a 38-minute album (although the album was released at a relatively cheap price, direct from the artist).

[Jo498]

I agree that the idea a disc should be filled to 70+ minutes by all means is somewhat ridiculous. But CDs used to be comparably expensive and one of their much touted advantages was to get longer works like Beethoven's 9th or most Bruckner symphonies on one disc (and no flipping sides), so 30-40 min CDs at 150-200% of the price of an LP seemed not such a great deal.

In the 80s this mostly applied to multi-disc-sets that were usually priced according to the numbers of discs (although manufacturing the actual discs cannot have been a major cost factor even then). You could pay full price x2 for a recording of Bruckner 8 lasting 85 min.

Now with boxes at prices of $1-2 per disc it doesn't really matter whether they do LP-length discs or full ones. But note that the Rubinstein Collection of about 15 years ago (the brown "book-style" packages) had well-filled discs, because they sold separately or in 2-disc-sets at midprice. One would not have wanted to pay for an extra disc if the Chopin Mazurkas easily fitted on two, but had been spread over three.

[Madiel]

True, if things are sold at a 'per disc' price you could be legitimately annoyed if something was presented as more short discs rather than fewer longer ones.

Many of the download stores like iTunes suffer from this a bit, in that they tend to have a 'per track' price that gets thoroughly silly when applied to wildly different track lengths. I just had a quick look at a pop album I own, and sure enough the 3-second interlude track costs A$2.19 just like the 6-minute songs do.  And the relationship between the album price and the price-per-track seems to be a bit unstable.

Their classical is often the same - and inherently worse because classical music has greater disparity in the length of works and movements. A quick search revealed a Beethoven piano sonatas set where you can pay A$1.69 for a 25-second variation or for a 9.5-minute movement. Of course, with iTunes, as soon as you hit the magical 10 minutes they go into "Album Only" mode. Which means you can buy each movement of Op.2/1 or Op.2/2 separately, or you can grab a whole 4-movement sonata, but if you want all of Op.2/3 you suddenly have to shell out for the entire 32 sonatas because the first movement of Op.2/3 clocks in at 10 minutes 57 seconds.

I do recall seeing at least one classical download store that clearly based the prices of tracks on their length, which seemed a fair method. Can't remember which store that was, though.

As for the cost of CDs versus LPs, it's not really any different to the kinds of tricks pulled with the size of cereal packets...

[Gurn Blanston]

True, if things are sold at a 'per disc' price you could be legitimately annoyed if something was presented as more short discs rather than fewer longer ones.

Many of the download stores like iTunes suffer from this a bit, in that they tend to have a 'per track' price that gets thoroughly silly when applied to wildly different track lengths. I just had a quick look at a pop album I own, and sure enough the 3-second interlude track costs A$2.19 just like the 6-minute songs do.  And the relationship between the album price and the price-per-track seems to be a bit unstable.

I do recall seeing at least one classical download store that clearly based the prices of tracks on their length, which seemed a fair method. Can't remember which store that was, though.

As for the cost of CDs versus LPs, it's not really any different to the kinds of tricks pulled with the size of cereal packets...

And don't overlook the Diabelli Variations, which I have on CD as 1 track and as 33 tracks. Price per track would be ridiculous there! It is an artificial method at best.

One of the reasons I think people expect more on a disk is that so very many 'new' releases are merely reissues of old, sometimes ancient, recordings. If one is paying for a disk of 40 year old music, then one should expect to get a full disk. With truly new releases I expect less (and get it!).

[Jay F]

I like discs that end after about an hour. Some CD players, and my computer's hard drive, have a hard time making it to the 70 or 80 minute mark. Though I've bought every successive Sony reissue of Bernstein's Mahler, I hold on to the first set of CDs, which aren't crammed on to 80-minute single discs, like the later editions of 6, 7, 8 and 9.

[Jo498]

I know that 80 min discs were a problem for earlier players, therefore most CDs until the mid-90s were at most about 75 min, but I have never had problems in any drive with newer 80-82 min discs.
There were also some older players that could not cope with too many tracks, so you got those one-track Diabellis or Goldbergs, but again I would be surprised if a less than 20 yo player had such problems. 

A somewhat related problem with re-issues of LP recordings is that works can get "orphaned", because often two full LPs are too long for one CD, so one work is left out and never appears on CD...

[amw]

True, if things are sold at a 'per disc' price you could be legitimately annoyed if something was presented as more short discs rather than fewer longer ones.

Many of the download stores like iTunes suffer from this a bit, in that they tend to have a 'per track' price that gets thoroughly silly when applied to wildly different track lengths. I just had a quick look at a pop album I own, and sure enough the 3-second interlude track costs A$2.19 just like the 6-minute songs do.  And the relationship between the album price and the price-per-track seems to be a bit unstable.

Their classical is often the same - and inherently worse because classical music has greater disparity in the length of works and movements. A quick search revealed a Beethoven piano sonatas set where you can pay A$1.69 for a 25-second variation or for a 9.5-minute movement. Of course, with iTunes, as soon as you hit the magical 10 minutes they go into "Album Only" mode. Which means you can buy each movement of Op.2/1 or Op.2/2 separately, or you can grab a whole 4-movement sonata, but if you want all of Op.2/3 you suddenly have to shell out for the entire 32 sonatas because the first movement of Op.2/3 clocks in at 10 minutes 57 seconds.

I do recall seeing at least one classical download store that clearly based the prices of tracks on their length, which seemed a fair method. Can't remember which store that was, though.

Yes, this is the objection more than anything else. I don't think a 75 minute and a 45 minute CD should necessarily cost the same amount (even though like you I'm not likely to listen to a 75 minute CD all the way through unless it's a single work).

I think you're thinking of eClassical, which I've bought some stuff from in the past. They're pretty good.

[listener]

SORABJI  Piano Sonata no.1 on  Altarus....  22:06 and enough.
and it sounds like an introduction by Jonathan Edwards to a song with Darlene

[Karl Henning]

At least it's over quickly!

Adams is all over this thread . . . a whopping 33-minute album:

Today I visited the local resale store to make a return. My Pile is so huge right now that I wasn't planning to buy anything, but I couldn't resist these:

[asin]B00002473K[/asin]Adams: Harmonium (de Waart)