Author Topic: Possible future blind tests  (Read 7624 times)

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Offline aukhawk

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Possible future blind tests
« on: November 20, 2014, 04:25:38 AM »
Brian has already announced his next blind test:
After amw's Schubert game ends, I intend on doing a "mini" game for Beethoven's Op 59 No 3 (just 8 recordings and 2 rounds).

The afterglow on this one [Bruckner] will be around for a while. I still want to listen to a couple of especially promising recordings that missed the finals.

After that - so probably sometime in January - I propose one of the following short blind tests:
NB one aim will definitely be to keep the early rounds short - targetting no more than 60 minutes listening per round (ie in a group of 6, a 10 minutes sample, or in a group of 4, 15 minutes sample) - OK that may be a bit optimistic (!) but it is a target.
The aim being that the whole thing would take no more than a couple of months.

Please indicate if you have an interest in any of these, with (optionally) a 2nd choice.  Thanks.

* Bartok Music for Strings,Percussion and Celeste
as a MIDI-blind (3 rounds) starting with 3 groups of 5 or thereabouts.

* Bach Cello Suites
as a midi-blind (3 rounds) with about 21 (max 24) starters.
Only selected movements will be used, maybe 'testers choice' in round 2.

* Sibelius 7th Symphony
as a midi-blind (3 rounds) with about 21 (max 24) starters.

* Sibelius 4th Symphony OR 5th OR 6th
as a MINI-blind (ie just 2 rounds) with about 8 (max 12) starters.

* Bach Violin Sonatas/Partitas
as a midi-blind (3 rounds) with about 15 starters.  Selected movements only, as Cello Suites above.

* Bach Orchestral Suite No.1
OR No.3
as a mini-blind (2 rounds) just 10 starters.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:30:18 AM by aukhawk »

Offline Jo498

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 04:40:54 AM »
++ Bartok
+ Bach cello or violin solo

not particularly interested in the others

Notwithstanding the greatness of the Schubert quintet, for me both the length of the movements and of the whole piece make it less than ideal for extended blind comparison.
I think I am always game for Beethoven string quartets or other chamber music (we can pick the shorter ones...), also Haydn, Mozart, Schumann, Brahms, Bartok, Shostakovich
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
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The morning breeze like a bugle blew
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 04:53:53 AM »
++ Bach Cello suites
+ Bach Orchestral suites - or perhaps a movement from one of the Brandenburgs would be more interesting
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Offline Wanderer

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 05:12:19 AM »
I'd be particularly interested in the Bartók and Sibelius 5 & 7 suggestions, provided it'd be the whole works we'd be reviewing.

If anyone'd be willing to commit to the undertaking, I think Beethoven's opp.47, 58 & 96, the Brahms op.5 sonata or Bach's B minor Mass would make excellent future blind test projects. And we should really pick up and continue (or re-organize) the Mahler 2 test.

Offline Brian

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 05:31:45 AM »
In addition to these, I think we should welcome very, VERY short listening tests. In 2015 I'm hoping not just to do Beethoven's Quartet Op. 59/3, but also a few short piano pieces like Ravel's Une barque sur l'ocean or Chopin's Nocturne Op. 48 No. 1.

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 06:04:32 AM »
I agree - I think your previous mini-blinds have gone really well Brian.  Even though (or especially because) one of the pieces you featured was one I'd never even heard of before!!

PS after say 10 responses I'll shorten my list of proposals to maybe just 3.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 06:07:52 AM by aukhawk »

kishnevi

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 07:56:49 AM »
I would be up for any of the Bach possibilities.
Not familiar enough with the Bartok .
Sibelius maybe,  depending on outside factors.
One long term project would be comparing Beethoven symphony cycles, using various movements in the earlier rounds and holding one complete symphony like the Fourth or Seventh for the final round.  There are enough possibilities there we could easily l
Iimit it to cycles recorded in the last 15 years or to classic big name cycles like Bohm or Karajan.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 11:41:12 AM »
I would be interested in organising one about a piece from Messiaen's Catalogue d'oiseaux. Or Carter's Night Fantasies. Or maybe a Stockhausen Klavierstuck. Or a Cage piano etude. Or a bit of Ludus Tonalis.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 11:45:26 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Brian

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2014, 11:47:10 AM »
Even though (or especially because) one of the pieces you featured was one I'd never even heard of before!!
Oooh, remind me, which one was that? Happy you liked it!

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2014, 12:39:12 PM »
No interest in Bartok or Sibelius (I've done some Sibelius in the past - blind listening I mean - so don't really need to do him again).

Definite interest in Bach Cello Suites or other Bach.

I'd actually like the Carter or Messiaen idea as I really don't know those pieces well and this is where I like the blind listening most. I'd like to give the bigger pieces a rest. Would love to try a concerto, as i think it would be interesting to contrast different approaches and combinations. 
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Offline EigenUser

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2014, 01:20:14 PM »
Brian has already announced his next blind test:
After that - so probably sometime in January - I propose one of the following short blind tests:
NB one aim will definitely be to keep the early rounds short - targetting no more than 60 minutes listening per round (ie in a group of 6, a 10 minutes sample, or in a group of 4, 15 minutes sample) - OK that may be a bit optimistic (!) but it is a target.
The aim being that the whole thing would take no more than a couple of months.

Please indicate if you have an interest in any of these, with (optionally) a 2nd choice.  Thanks.

* Bartok Music for Strings,Percussion and Celeste
as a MIDI-blind (3 rounds) starting with 3 groups of 5 or thereabouts.

* Bach Cello Suites
as a midi-blind (3 rounds) with about 21 (max 24) starters.
Only selected movements will be used, maybe 'testers choice' in round 2.

* Sibelius 7th Symphony
as a midi-blind (3 rounds) with about 21 (max 24) starters.

* Sibelius 4th Symphony OR 5th OR 6th
as a MINI-blind (ie just 2 rounds) with about 8 (max 12) starters.

* Bach Violin Sonatas/Partitas
as a midi-blind (3 rounds) with about 15 starters.  Selected movements only, as Cello Suites above.

* Bach Orchestral Suite No.1
OR No.3
as a mini-blind (2 rounds) just 10 starters.
Bartok, for sure. I know that piece inside-out and I'd love to participate. The others are of little interest to me. Has there ever been a Bartok comparison?

EDIT: Brian, I might be interested in a comparison for Ravel's Barque... (the original piano, not his orchestration).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 01:30:03 PM by EigenUser »
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014, 01:20:59 PM »
Sib 7 and MSPC

Offline jfdrex

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014, 02:30:10 PM »
As a certified Sibelius nutcase, I'd be more than happy to participate in any Sibelius blind test. ;D 8)  Of the symphonies, for the purposes of the test, either 4 or 7 would interest me the most, but No. 6 would probably provide the freshest challenge.

I'm on somewhat less familiar ground with Bach, but would be equally happy with either the cello suites or the violin sonatas & partitas.

If Bartok is the people's choice, include me out. :laugh:

Offline amw

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2014, 08:04:54 PM »
++ Bach violin sonatas and partitas
+ Bach cello suites

Not really interested in the others at the moment.

Things I'd like to see comparisons on eventually -
Mozart chamber music, e.g. K515 or 516
Schumann piano music
Brahms
something by Carter or Stockhausen
Tchaikovsky String Serenade
Beethoven Op. 106, 120 or 130

Offline Brian

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2014, 08:27:07 PM »
Schumann piano music
The Kreisleriana game is all yours ;)

By the way, I am also very interested in Sibelius symphonies, Bach cello suites, Tchaikovsky string serenade, Bach Orchestral Suite No 3, or Beethoven symphonies/concertos/quartets.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2014, 08:39:07 PM »
Why not some shorter works, tone poems or overtures?

Ken B

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2014, 08:46:35 PM »
Why not some shorter works, tone poems or overtures?
Yes. 15 minutes or less.
My first choice would be for a Dumbarton Oaks contest. Such a very demanding piece.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2014, 08:52:13 PM »
How about we do a blind comparison for Sibelius' The Oceanides? This would definitely be one I'd participate in.
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Offline aukhawk

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2014, 02:28:12 AM »
Even though (or especially because) one of the pieces you featured was one I'd never even heard of before!!
Oooh, remind me, which one was that? Happy you liked it!

That was Gaspard.  I didn't participate (knowing so little about the music) - but it was a great ride - thanks!
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,21672.0.html


Well that's been 10 responses, thankyou, and I think the choice will come down to one of these:
(with apologies to those who, like me, were rooting for the Bartok)

* Bach Cello Suites
I estimate 21 starters in 3 groups of 7, 3 rounds
1st round would be 3 selected movements mixing fast, slow, major, minor totalling approx 11 minutes.
Final round would be a single complete suite, probably the 5th.


* Sibelius 7th Symphony
Again I estimate 21 starters in 3 groups of 7, 3 rounds
initially auditioning from ~2 minutes in to the 1st huge climax at ~13 minutes, so approx 11 minutes.
Final round would be the whole thing of course, approx 22 minutes.

or if you would prefer something short and sweet -

* Bach Orchestral Suite 1
10 runners and riders, 2 rounds, all done and dusted in a month?
1st round would be 3 selected movements totalling 7 or 8 minutes.  x5 that's just 40 minutes of listening in total.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 02:31:09 AM by aukhawk »

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Possible future blind tests
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2014, 05:45:07 AM »
* Bach Orchestral Suite 1
10 runners and riders, 2 rounds, all done and dusted in a month?
1st round would be 3 selected movements totalling 7 or 8 minutes.  x5 that's just 40 minutes of listening in total.
If this was the choice, I'd prefer less time per contestant and more contestants. I know this adds some difficulty in two ways: 1) remembering more performances (and perhaps the way to do this is to create more groups - many of us do multiple groups anyway, or you can send two groups to everyone from the start, ie 4 per group), and 2) determining a winner with fewer minutes. On #2, I don't find this an issue, since 95% of the time, I have an idea what I think within 30-45 seconds (not always the case, and sometimes opinion changes, but it is remarkable how often my initial impression is my final impression). I'm not sure I've ever had a case where I needed more minutes of playing to know for sure. SO basically it would be the same 40 minutes, just 5 min per entry instead of 8 min. I'll participate in this one regardless of how it is done though.

On Sibelius 7, I would do 2 rounds - winner of each group goes through to final. First round is long though.

Cello suites are a bit of logistical nightmare. I'd really want the whole thing in the last round, so maybe this isn't a good candidate after all. If you could narrow it to three in the last round, you could do the whole thing.  Or maybe you use complete suites in the leadup to the last round? Since I don't have multiple versions of this one, my question would be is one suite enough to determine the style/approach of the whole thing or do some performers do better at some suites than others?
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