How much do you need to like an artist in order to listen to him/her?

[The new erato]

Generally I can get around the ethical failings of most artists and composers.

But what if Hitler had been a good painter?*  !

If he had been a good painter we wouldn't have had the NSDAP.

[Jo498]

If he had been a good painter we wouldn't have had the NSDAP.

Have you read Stephen Fry's "Making History"?

[The new erato]

Have you read Stephen Fry's "Making History"?

No?

[Jo498]

It's a rather entertaining and thought-provoking alternative history novel where Hitler's conception is blocked with help of a time machine (but he could have died in the WW I trenches or have become a successful artist as well). I do not spoil too much by revealing that the Nazi takeover is NOT avoided...

[The new erato]

Sounds interesting, and Fry is an intelligent bloke. I'll see if I can find this.

[Abuelo Igor]

I find the whole concept of this thread quite ironic when I start considering the image of classical musicians and composers, let alone the public that follows them, among the non-classical listening crowd. Ego-maniacs, snobs, Nazi supporters, reactionary upper-class a-holes, you name it. I have the same argument with my brother every year about the alleged unpleasantness and low human qualities of anyone involved in classical music (as opposed to popular music, where apparently everything's hunky-dory).

I also wonder at how Russian and German musicians from the last century can be placed "beyond the pale" because of their politics, while musicians from the Baroque or Classical periods, whose work sometimes endorsed quite enthusiastically the values of absolute monarchy, can get away scot-free from the revisionist brigade.

[The new erato]

So you think classical musicians are worse than pop musicians?

[Abuelo Igor]

No, it's actually my brother who has the prejudice against everything classical. As for me, I think that stupidity, when it appears, is equally shared among musicians of every genre.

[The new erato]

No, it's actually my brother who has the prejudice against everything classical. As for me, I think that stupidity, when it appears, is equally shared among musicians humans of every genre.

Fixed.

[mszczuj]

I hate the way Furtwängler castrate Beethoven, so I have no problem with hating him as nazi, but have nothing against Karajan or Böhm.
Netrebko, Pletnev not even exist in my world, so I have no problem with them.
I have probably heard some recordings of Tabachnik, but don't remember.

But all these are trifles. Tchaikovsky was real bad guy who bought children love. Do you listen to Tchaikovsky, Discobolus?

[Ken B]

I hate the way Furtwängler castrate Beethoven, so I have no problem with hating him as nazi, but have nothing against Karajan or Böhm.
Netrebko, Pletnev not even exist in my world, so I have no problem with them.
I have probably heard some recordings of Tabachnik, but don't remember.

But all these are trifles. Tchaikovsky was real bad guy who bought children love. Do you listen to Tchaikovsky, Discobolus?

Britten.

[Gurn Blanston]

But all these are trifles. Tchaikovsky was real bad guy who bought children love. Do you listen to Tchaikovsky, Discobolus?

Where does this come from? Never heard this before...

[Ken B]

Where does this come from? Never heard this before...

Nor have I, but it's a legit question anyway. A diary comes to light tomorrow, and we learn Bach or Boulez or Shostakovich did something we don't like. To the pyre with his music?

[Wakefield]

Where does this come from? Never heard this before...

It's quite well documented, Gurn.

Here you get a summary:

https://books.google.cl/books?id=9YZgJW1u9vYC&pg=PA38&lpg=PA38&dq=tchaikovsky+pedophile&source=bl&ots=_Oz_8Dj_7p&sig=T2LfVwDIy_OfyJOXHcxVUhY5BaI&hl=es&sa=X&ei=vceVVK2vG6S1sQT4joGIBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

Source:
Timothy L. Jackson: Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 6 (Pathéthique) (Cambridge Music Handbooks)

[mszczuj]

Where does this come from? Never heard this before...

From Anthony Holden.

[asin]0679420061[/asin]

[Brian]

It's not just Tchaikovsky; Camille Saint-Saens supposedly visited Algeria to purchase the services of teenagers.

[Henk]

There's a huge difference between sex with childeren or teenagers. The first is bad, the second, pederasty, not, because there are two willing humans, mutual pleasure. It's educational love, one can say.

[Ken B]

It's not just Tchaikovsky; Camille Saint-Saens supposedly visited Algeria to purchase the services of teenagers.

Btw Brian, you can rest easy over Lewis Carrol; it's an urban myth. These things never die alas.

[Wakefield]

Btw Brian, you can rest easy over Lewis Carrol; it's an urban myth. These things never die alas.

Have you seen his pictures of little girls? They are disturbing, at least.

[Henk]

I understand. Gordo. But the fact that it's not standard in our society, doesn't mean it's bad. It's just deviant, not a crime!

I mean not just teenagers, but adolescents.