Chopin's Nocturnes in the best possible sound?

[The Emperor]

oops, Anyone who wants it, just pm me 

[George]

Thanks! 

[Brian]

George, the Moravec I've heard a little of, and while the sound didn't give me a 'trouser tent', the pianism did. So, definitely on the 'To Try' list. Not the complete cycle though, am I right?

As for Arrau, I'm completely unfamiliar with his work, I'm embarrassed to admit. In this or any other repertoire.

Another vote for Arrau - deeply felt readings, expansive too, and I cannot complain about the sound, even given its age.

Also, it rather alarms me that Chopin does that to your, well, organs.

[Mark]

Also, it rather alarms me that Chopin does that to your, well, organs.

Hey, I was kidding!

[head-case]

Anyway the sound on the Tipo recording is perfect for her lush sonority. I don't see what the problem is. The very question about best sound for Chopin is totally irrelevant anyway. This isn't orchestral music, and the best Chopin pianists are dead and gone and usually in poor to awful sound. I think you're missing the point if you want good sounding Chopin recordings, and you will have very little appreciation of the composer this way.

I guess I would nominate this for the dogmatic statement of the year.  If you appreciate the engineering of a Chopin recording, it means you are too dumb to appreciate Chopin.   

[sidoze]

I guess I would nominate this for the dogmatic statement of the year.  If you appreciate the engineering of a Chopin recording, it means you are too dumb to appreciate Chopin.   

Too dumb? I don't know about that. I think I'll just take my nomination--thanks for that, always a pleasure to gain recognition for one's writing--and leave you to figure out what I said.

[Brian]

I guess I would nominate this for the dogmatic statement of the year.  If you appreciate the engineering of a Chopin recording, it means you are too dumb to appreciate Chopin.   

Well what he just meant is the best Chopin CDs aren't new. I have to agree - I think that aged sound contributes to the atmosphere (as with Hubay's violin music, by the way). For instance, the most moving experience I've yet had with Chopin is Wladyslaw Szpilman's 1948 recording of the C sharp minor Nocturne. But of course, that is a rather special performance anyways.

[Holden]

Much has been made of the Maria Tipo recordings in this (and other) threads so I decided to sample some of them via the files that George made available. I'm going to go against the current trend and state that I don't really rate them. They are somewhat mannered and their is a 'heaviness' about them in places that just doesn't seem to suit the music. If you are a fan of Arrau's Nocturnes I can imagine you liking them but I'm not and my reaction to the Tipo has been similar if not quite as strong as it was to the Arrau. I also hold similar feelings about the Mari Joao Pires recording.

IMO, these pieces are of such quality that you don't need to do anything to them. You don't have to play around with the tempo, or try to add extra emotion and most importantly you don't have to overdo the rubato. For that reason I'm very happy to stay with Moravec and, of course, the inimitable Artur Rubinstein.

[sidoze]

IMO, these pieces are of such quality that you don't need to do anything to them.

Well we all know what happens if you don't do anything to them: Pollini. Enough said? The Moravec is very personal, I certainly wouldn't categorise it as you have here. He was never terribly old-fashioned though, and neither was Rubinstein, so they're both personal takes quite far removed from standard performance practice up till, what, around the '50s? Tipo is more of a throwback to those pre-'50 times in terms of rubati and dynamics (which are immensely wide here, not to mention a way of cascading dynamics that is probably unrivalled in these works). It's certainly heavy, which is probably the main thing that people will dislike. It's also immeasurably subtler than Arrau IMO.

To mention Pires in the same paragraph as Tipo is too much!!!!!

Did you hear 62/2 among the ones you sampled?

[orbital]

Much has been made of the Maria Tipo recordings in this (and other) threads so I decided to sample some of them via the files that George made available. I'm going to go against the current trend and state that I don't really rate them. They are somewhat mannered and their is a 'heaviness' about them in places that just doesn't seem to suit the music. If you are a fan of Arrau's Nocturnes I can imagine you liking them but I'm not and my reaction to the Tipo has been similar if not quite as strong as it was to the Arrau. I also hold similar feelings about the Mari Joao Pires recording.

IMO, these pieces are of such quality that you don't need to do anything to them. You don't have to play around with the tempo, or try to add extra emotion and most importantly you don't have to overdo the rubato. For that reason I'm very happy to stay with Moravec and, of course, the inimitable Artur Rubinstein.

I don't like Arrau's (or neither Pires' naturally) either. But Tipo seems to have found a good spot for herself between Arrau and Francois. Some passages are indeed taken slow, but as long as they are done in the right places (very relative of course) and not excessively they don't constitute heaviness for me.

[SonicMan46]

IMO, these pieces are of such quality that you don't need to do anything to them. You don't have to play around with the tempo, or try to add extra emotion and most importantly you don't have to overdo the rubato. For that reason I'm very happy to stay with Moravec and, of course, the inimitable Artur Rubinstein.

Holden - thanks for your thoughts - Moarvec is my favorite after listening to these works by various composers over the years - I've not tried Artur on CD (had his recordings on LPs years ago, and enjoyed) - maybe if I want a 'second' set, I should give him a try?  Looking forward to other comments!  Dave 

[Holden]

Well we all know what happens if you don't do anything to them: Pollini. Enough said? The Moravec is very personal, I certainly wouldn't categorise it as you have here. He was never terribly old-fashioned though, and neither was Rubinstein, so they're both personal takes quite far removed from standard performance practice up till, what, around the '50s? Tipo is more of a throwback to those pre-'50 times in terms of rubati and dynamics (which are immensely wide here, not to mention a way of cascading dynamics that is probably unrivalled in these works). It's certainly heavy, which is probably the main thing that people will dislike. It's also immeasurably subtler than Arrau IMO.

To mention Pires in the same paragraph as Tipo is too much!!!!!

Did you hear 62/2 among the ones you sampled?

Tony, no I didn't sample Op 62/2. After hearing 5 tracks the style became quite obvious but I'm prepared to go back and listen because I respect your opinion.

[sidoze]

I think it would be worth hearing 62/2, though I agree, the style is obvious quite immediately. 62/2 is the one I'd always recommend as it's a very different take, especially the central section.

[George]

Much has been made of the Maria Tipo recordings in this (and other) threads so I decided to sample some of them via the files that George made available. I'm going to go against the current trend and state that I don't really rate them. They are somewhat mannered and their is a 'heaviness' about them in places that just doesn't seem to suit the music.

This was my initial impression, but after awhile they grew on me somewhat. I am still deciding.

[George]

Holden - thanks for your thoughts - Moarvec is my favorite after listening to these works by various composers over the years - I've not tried Artur on CD (had his recordings on LPs years ago, and enjoyed) - maybe if I want a 'second' set, I should give him a try?  Looking forward to other comments!  Dave 

If you try Rubinstein, I recommend the second set (mono, from '49-'50), the one with the Scherzos.

[BorisG]

Not discounting performance, but with slightly more emphasis on sound.

Leonskaja's (1992) is the ultimate, and maybe that is why it is available on the Ultima label.

Amoyel's (2004) is a must hear performance. The positioning is slightly forward.

Barenboim's (1982) has contended for a quarter of a century. How time flies. Positioning is slightly recessed.

[Mark]

Barenboim's (1982) has contended for a quarter of a century. How time flies. Positioning is slightly recessed.

And yet I know of people who turn up their noses at the Barenboim. I rather enjoy his performances in these works.

[George]

And yet I know of people who turn up their noses at the Barenboim.

Yes, I love Sgt. Rock's response to this - he buys the CD on the spot. 

Where has he been anyway? 

[George]

What do folks think of the new Jan Lisiecki set of Nocturnes? They are up on Spotify and also can be sampled here.

[Mandryka]

What do folks think of the new Jan Lisiecki set of Nocturnes? They are up on Spotify and also can be sampled here.

I listened to a couple, op 62/1 and op 27/1. I enjoyed hearing the left hand so clearly, and I enjoyed his sobriety and poise.