Author Topic: Davis vs Karajan Mozart  (Read 5057 times)

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Kontrapunctus

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2016, 10:14:26 PM »
Karajan is sui generis in Mozart.  He does it all wrong, but the result justifies the wrongness.  But he should be an alternative, not a primary choice.

Have you checked into Mackerras's complete set on Teldec?
Do you mean Telarc? I had some, but the sound varied quite a bit, from good to merely acceptable. I think I'll go for the Davis set.

Parsifal

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2016, 10:18:28 PM »
Do you mean Telarc? I had some, but the sound varied quite a bit, from good to merely acceptable. I think I'll go for the Davis set.
Odd, I found the sound varied from superb to superb. :)

Online Mandryka

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2016, 10:46:34 PM »
There is one instrumental thing by Karajan which I remember thinking was good, his BPO recording of the Adagio and Fugue in C minor.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 10:57:03 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline king ubu

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2016, 11:40:43 PM »
The only respectable Old school Mozart I've heard is by Georg Szell, Bruno Walter and Josef Krips...

I'll raise a drink to that tonight!

Abbado I found pretty boring, both Sony and DG, but the later clearly have the edge.

What I enjoyed a lot are four discs by I Solisti Veneti/Claudio Scimone - I think they have been boxed as well, found them one by one, not sure what their status is (OOP I guess) - here's one:

Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

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Online Que

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2016, 11:56:28 PM »
I'll raise a drink to that tonight!


To your health!  :D

In opera I would extend the shortlist to Erich Kleiber and - with some reservations - Klemperer.  8)

Q

Offline GioCar

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2016, 12:02:54 AM »
Toccata&Fugue, go with this neglected but amazing Mozartian conductor (already mentioned before, to be honest)



Great reviews on Amazon as well

Offline king ubu

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2016, 12:08:14 AM »
To your health!  :D

In opera I would extend the shortlist to Erich Kleiber and - with some reservations - Klemperer.  8)

Q

... and Böhm, too (for - several versions of - Così). Though the Wunderlich Zauberflöte is let down by the mediocrity of the ladies ... Klemperer's luxuriously cast and wonderfully sung one is useless as it misses the dialogue - a series of arias and other numbers, no theatre whatsoever.

Serail: Jochum, Krips (1950, 1965)
Figaro: Kleiber (+ Giulini, Böhm)
Don Giovanni: Krips
Così: Böhm (1955, 1962, live 1974)
Zauberflöte: Furtwängler (live 1951) (+ Sawallisch, Haitink)

Actually I wish Legge would have let Furtwängler do all the EMI studio versions with the wonderful Vienna singers (think Karajan's Così but with real drama and less hurry) ... and I wish the 1951 Salzburg version was sonically better - but for non-HIP, I think it's still the best.

But all of that's a different topic.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 12:10:07 AM by king ubu »
Es wollt ein meydlein grasen gan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Und do die roten röslein stan:
Fick mich, lieber Peter!
Fick mich mehr, du hast dein ehr.
Kannstu nit, ich wills dich lern.
Fick mich, lieber Peter!

http://ubus-notizen.blogspot.ch/

Offline Jo498

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2016, 12:38:15 AM »
The Maag/Arts is probably preferable to Karajan and Davis although it is slightly HIP influenced and a few movements are mannered (finale of #39). The earlier late 50s recordings are more straightforward but may not qualify because of the sound.
I have not heard Davis/Dresden but he can be somewhat staid in those later Dresden recordings. I had a wonderful Philips LP with 25/29 with Davis/London from the early 1970s or so but I don't think these have been on CD (or only in large boxes I am not going to buy for two pieces).

While it is not a huge band (probably more like the ensemble size Marriner or Mackerras use) a good modern instruments recording of ALL the symphonies is Hans Graf/Mozarteum on Capriccio/Delta. These can be often found very cheaply and in some incarnations they look a little "cheap" but they are good recordings and the handful of singles I have also have decent booklets. Rather "middle of the road" and I prefer HIP but an overlooked easy choice for modern instruments if one wants the earlier pieces.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline marvinbrown

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2016, 01:57:25 AM »
I have the Davis and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I agree partially with heck - his Don Giovanni is outstanding! :)
+1.  Paired with Brendel in the concertos, it is pure bliss.

  I couldn't agree more!  :) All these (Brendel in the piano concertos and Davis in Don Giovanni) are the recordings in the Mozart Philips Complete Edition and they are fantastic. 

  Marriner really does it for me in the symphonies.  The sound is rich, fullbodied and just heavenly! I don't know what it is exactly, but I never fatigue from listening to his recordings of the Mozart symphonies. The sound on the recordings is well balanced, the treble never irritates- great care was taken to get it right!

   Marriner and the ASMF had me at the opening of the film Amadeus- symphony 25- and I have been addicted ever since.

  marvin

 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 02:04:19 AM by marvinbrown »

Offline MishaK

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2016, 06:17:43 AM »
I agree that the better big band Mozart recordings tend to be >50 years old, some of Klemperer's, Szell's, early Maag (although his 1990s italian recordings are not without interest), Markevitch, E. Kleiber, Schuricht, Walter...
the Boehm/Berlin set is IMO one of the most overrated "classics of the gramophone", probably because of the fact that it was the only game in town in decent sound from a major label for many years.

That's why I also suggested the Barenboim/ECO/EMI recording. It's in much better sound and comes from a conductor who has done the Mozart piano concerti and operas forwards and backwords and completely inhabits the idiom. It is much more intense, features technically better playing and is recorded in better sound.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 06:22:34 AM by MishaK »

Offline MishaK

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2016, 06:21:39 AM »
Only the WPO seems to have a license to record non-HIP Mozart. There are the Levine and Bernstein recordings on DGG. I have heard the Bernstein recordings and didn't like them too much.

There is also a rather extensive multi disc traversal of the Mozart symhonies that the VPO did with Muti in the 90s which falls between the odd aggressivness of Levine and the overt romanticism of Bernstein. It might be more to your liking. I find it a bit too slick and smooth (like most of what Muti does) but YYMV.

Parsifal

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2016, 06:32:41 AM »
There is also a rather extensive multi disc traversal of the Mozart symhonies that the VPO did with Muti in the 90s which falls between the odd aggressivness of Levine and the overt romanticism of Bernstein. It might be more to your liking. I find it a bit too slick and smooth (like most of what Muti does) but YYMV.

Never have been a big fan of Muti. Decca has given us Chailly Brahms, Chailly Beethoven, where's the Chailly Mozart? That's what I say.

This is turning into a "list every set you can think of thread" so we can't leave this one out.



Not original instruments, moderate size ensemble, not big. Pretty good, I'd say (but not my favorite).

Offline MishaK

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2016, 06:51:28 AM »
Btw, anyone who likes big band Mozart should come to these concerts:

http://cso.org/ticketsandevents/production-details-2016-17/chicago-symphony-orchestra/mozart-masterpieces/?perfNo=7888

Should be great.

Kontrapunctus

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Re: Davis vs Karajan Mozart
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2016, 09:29:26 AM »
The Davis set arrived a few days ago. So far, I like it very much. Slightly less driven than Karajan but still plenty powerful. The sound is a touch more distant but more natural--less overtly multi-mic'd.