Author Topic: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites  (Read 41461 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5481
  • Location: Germany
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2015, 12:59:00 PM »
I do not think c4 is Fournier. At least not on Archiv; I have this one and like it and would be really disappointed by myself if I had flippantly dismissed it because reverb (I don't think there's a lot of reverb on the Fournier/Archiv).
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline mszczuj

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1043
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2015, 01:43:25 PM »
Group C:

yes: 1,4-6,8,10
no: 2,3,7,9

Ken B

  • Guest
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2015, 03:15:26 PM »
I do not think c4 is Fournier. At least not on Archiv; I have this one and like it and would be really disappointed by myself if I had flippantly dismissed it because reverb (I don't think there's a lot of reverb on the Fournier/Archiv).
I meant his later one, which I had on vinyl. It was very echo-y indeed. But as I say, I have not listened, just a cynical guess.  :D

Offline aukhawk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1431
  • Oh no! Someone catted my avatar!
  • Location: England
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach to Björk
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2015, 01:09:07 AM »
It doesn't look as though you're going to find out which one was Fournier, any time soon.

Group C's done & dusted but I badly need a couple more votes in Group A before we can move on, please folks.

I must say, before we started I had looked at Group C and thought it very slightly the weakest of the three groups - the voting says otherwise, with 2 cellists getting 100% approval and 8 out of the 10 more than 50%.  Contrast that with Group B where one has 75%, one has 50% and all the rest lie below the 50% mark!

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 5481
  • Location: Germany
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2015, 01:19:37 AM »
you said we should just do it quick and dirty in the "prologue" so I gave more or less spontaneous reactions, basically approval unless someone explicitly annoyed me. (And I do not know the music so well as e.g. the Schubert quintet so I do not have strong preconceptions how it should go.)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17619
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2015, 01:24:12 AM »
It doesn't look as though you're going to find out which one was Fournier, any time soon.

Group C's done & dusted but I badly need a couple more votes in Group A before we can move on, please folks.

I must say, before we started I had looked at Group C and thought it very slightly the weakest of the three groups - the voting says otherwise, with 2 cellists getting 100% approval and 8 out of the 10 more than 50%.  Contrast that with Group B where one has 75%, one has 50% and all the rest lie below the 50% mark!
I can help with Group A  8)
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Offline betterthanfine

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 292
  • Location: The Netherlands
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2015, 02:18:16 AM »
Eep, life got in the way this weekend and I didn't get down to listening yet. I'll make sure to get my votes in tonight! Sorry folks!

Offline xochitl

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 237
  • Location: walla walla
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2015, 02:50:58 AM »
i can do some group A as well

Offline North Star

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 17619
  • Location: Oulu, Finland
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2015, 03:30:16 AM »
A1 -  YES
A2 -   ~
A3 -  YES
A4 -   ~
A5 -  YES
A6 -  NO
A7 -  NO
A8 -  YES
A9 -   ~
A10-  YES

"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Offline aukhawk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1431
  • Oh no! Someone catted my avatar!
  • Location: England
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach to Björk
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2015, 08:08:38 AM »
Thanks North Star.  The words "glutton" and "punishment" spring to mind.  ;)  And thanks in anticipation, betterthanfine and xochitl.

Now about the next round, Round 1 proper.
This will consist of Suite 3 (in C major) - Prelude, followed by Suite 2 (D minor) - Sarabande, Minuets, Gigue.
No cuts, each clip is around 13 minutes long.  Three groups of 6, from which 10 will go on to Round 2.

Because, in the Prologue, the question was "do you want to hear more of this?" it seems only right that everyone who voted will be sent links for the 'chosen ones' from the group they already heard (though played in a different order).  So, Group A cut down becomes Group D, B becomes E and C becomes F.  More or less.  If you'd rather hear a different group than last time (maybe you didn't like them much?) - let me know.  Later rounds will be more mixed up of course.

Group C voting is complete and they'll be receiving links for Group F a few minutes after I post this.  Groups D and E should follow in about 1 day's time, and I'll post the 12 fallers from the Prologue around then as well.

Offline betterthanfine

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 292
  • Location: The Netherlands
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2015, 02:07:33 PM »
Alright, I finally found some time tonight! Again, apologies for the wait.

Group B:

1: Yes
2: Meh
3: NO
4: No
5: No
6: Meh
7: Yes
8: Yes!
9: Meh
10: No
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 02:13:39 PM by betterthanfine »

jlaurson

  • Guest
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2015, 02:45:15 PM »
Group A

A1 Big-boned and resonant… buoyant. I’m not sure if I want to hear a whole set of Suites of this more than once and still dig it as much, but for a first impression, it’s quite the stuff. Maiskyesque.

Relatively close miking for being such a soup, acoustically. Digs deep and takes every invitation to go for it. Understatement it ain’t. Some of the oomph the stupid soundcard of my computer adds, which I can’t avoid right now, not having access to my DCAs.

YES. More Please.

A2 Still much reverb. Still my soundcard at distorting work? More muffled, slightly older sound. Regal, speedy, well judged… on the one hand… but also too fast and leaving little by way of footprint. A truck just drove by in the back. Second sample bit gives me a groove that I was missing earlier. I’m now less skeptical. Is it noble or bland? It’s not bland bland, for sure. And maybe not noble… leaves me confused. Must hear more, but won’t demand to do so.

OK. Why Not.


A3 Haha! Hello there, extrovert. HIP, aren’t you. This soundcard really is too obnoxious. Everything sounds reverberant. But this sounded good, anyway. Yes, I like it.

YES. More Please.


A4 Ah, look who is trying to sail through. Don’t know if it holds my interest.

OK.

A5 Low, deep sound. Least reverberant… as if recorded off a microphone on the fingerboard, almost. I don’t mind the sounds of the fingers, though… gives it rhythm a bit like adding a table to the whole shebang. I’ll give it a

YES.

A6 sailed by me the first time. Second time I am glad it sailed by me the first time. Not an inspired opening. AND plodding counterpoint? Thanks but

NO thanks.

A7 S.l.o.w. I’d hate to dismiss something because of its age… but it’s not the age-slowness that I object to, it’s the lumbering rhythm. The second bit is much more promising, with real bite. Still, by a hair’s breadth it’s a:

NO

A8 Tubby and noises and on the border of hecticism. Da Spalla? Interesting enough to merit a

YES, but just.

A9 Fast and glib on first hearing.

NO. I’m happy to hear it but if I never hear this again that’s fine, too. Not bad, but not giving me anything other can’t give me also. This would win only against egregiously off kilter recordings.

A10 That didn’t particularly knock me over.

OK.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 03:14:37 PM by jlaurson »

Offline aukhawk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1431
  • Oh no! Someone catted my avatar!
  • Location: England
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach to Björk
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2015, 03:59:36 PM »
That's great - thanks both.
A rundown of the eliminations and links to the next round will follow tomorrow

Offline Brian

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 22560
    • Brian's blog
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2015, 08:26:35 PM »
Am I too late?? If so, disregard.

A1 yes
A2 no
A3 yes
A4 meh
A5 meh
A6 no. Awful.
A7 yes, very much yes. Possibly Queyras. Why does Jens think this is an old recording? Sounds to me like post-2000.
A8 yes. aha, the non-cello!
A9 no
A10 meh

Funny that all the other voters condemn A7 while it's my favorite of the ten. I don't know much about Bach!! But I did triple-check to make sure I really did want to vote yes, and the answer is yes, I do.

Offline xochitl

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 237
  • Location: walla walla
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2015, 09:49:51 PM »
hope im not too late!

a1 - yes
a2 - no
a3 - no
a4 - ok
a5 - no
a6 - no
a7 - no
a8 - woah...yes!
a9 - yes
a10 - a resounding yes

Offline Moonfish

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6447
  • Location: USA
  • Currently Listening to:
    Timeless soundscapes...
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2015, 10:53:53 PM »
Am I too late?? If so, disregard.

A1 yes
A2 no
A3 yes
A4 meh
A5 meh
A6 no. Awful.
A7 yes, very much yes. Possibly Queyras. Why does Jens think this is an old recording? Sounds to me like post-2000.
A8 yes. aha, the non-cello!
A9 no
A10 meh

Funny that all the other voters condemn A7 while it's my favorite of the ten. I don't know much about Bach!! But I did triple-check to make sure I really did want to vote yes, and the answer is yes, I do.

Hey! I liked A7!   >:(
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Offline aukhawk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1431
  • Oh no! Someone catted my avatar!
  • Location: England
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach to Björk
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2015, 01:22:14 AM »
Not too late - thanks - voting closed (not for those who already have group F of course!) - results coming up ...

...

Least loved of all, scoring less than 10%, was A6 ...
Janos Starker



Also markedly unloved, scoring 30% each, are the following four, prepare to be shocked ...

B4 (not a single 'Yes' vote)
Mstislav Rostropovich



B3 (one 'Yes' vote)
Pieter Wispelwey (his 3rd recording) (and a personal favourite  :( )



B8 (one 'Yes' vote)
Anner Bylsma (his 2nd recording)



B9 (one 'Yes' vote)
Lynn Harrell


This last is truly awful sound quality, the worst on test IMO - sounds like a bad digital transfer of an over-bright Decca recording - I quite like the performance but this badly needs a remastering.

That's not all - 7 more rejects to follow shortly, stay tuned folks ...
« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 01:55:07 AM by aukhawk »

Offline aukhawk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1431
  • Oh no! Someone catted my avatar!
  • Location: England
  • Currently Listening to:
    Bach to Björk
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2015, 02:21:30 AM »
... also not going forward to round 1 - in no particular order - these all scored around 40%, but generally only one Yes vote (out of 5 or 6 voters) ...

A2
Yo-Yo Ma



A4
Paul Tortelier (5 positive votes but like Starker and Rostropovich, none of them a Yes - a bit unlucky though)



A7 (2 Yes votes, but 4 No)
Isang Enders


For those speculating about the age of this recording - it was released in, er, 2014.

A9
Steven Isserliss



C4
Bruno Cocset (2 Yes, but 3 No)



C9
Maurice Gendron (2 Yes, but 3 No) (who is left, of the old guard?)



and finally, this one is very unlucky, there were two more on 40% that couldn't be split in any way, one goes through on reputation, leaving this lady out in the cold ...
B6
Winona Zelenka (another of my personal favourites  :( :( )




That concludes the carnage for the Prologue round, links for Round 1 groups D and E will be sent out via PM later today.

Offline betterthanfine

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 292
  • Location: The Netherlands
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2015, 04:02:01 AM »
B3 (one 'Yes' vote)
Pieter Wispelwey (his 3rd recording) (and a personal favourite  :( )


Ha, I actually own this one (it was a present). I remember liking it on first listen, but B3 was without a doubt my least favourite from the group.

Offline betterthanfine

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 292
  • Location: The Netherlands
Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2015, 04:11:35 AM »
Those are some big names being kicked off so early, by the way.  ???