Author Topic: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites  (Read 41276 times)

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Offline mszczuj

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2015, 05:11:23 AM »
F6>F5>F2>F3>F1>F4

jlaurson

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #81 on: February 13, 2015, 01:47:10 AM »
No just the 2 votes in Group D so far.  Basically we have 5 voters per group, no point really in setting a deadline yet.
I'll PM you the links for group F - which judging by your vote, will be more to your taste than group E would be.

I really don't mind listening to recordings I really don't like.  ;)


Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2015, 08:06:02 AM »
E2>E5>E4>E3>E6>E1
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Offline aukhawk

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2015, 12:16:17 PM »
Thanks mszczuj and (: premont : )

Offline xochitl

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2015, 01:29:48 AM »
E1=E6>E4=E5>E3=E2

jlaurson

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2015, 05:52:07 PM »
F1 Indeed… likey very much! Noblesse moderne. Very right throughout. Right amount of letting the music speak for itself but also not just noodling the notes.

F2 Impresses with its light and flexible touch… very different than the much grander statement of non-HIP F1, but Boy is this elegant! I love it in the first two minutes.

F3 flew by. [see below]

F4 starts whiney… needly. But at least it calls attention to itself and not in the worst of manners. Still, the tone doesn’t get better and while, if this were a violinist doing the Sonatas & Partitas, I’d say: leathery tone; nicely accentuates the edges of the work and the graggy bits… (or just outright guess: Milstein II), here I’m not so inclined… maybe the Cello Suites are not for the viola, after all. I don’t dislike it. But I don’t warm to it, either. Perhaps it’s a good antidote to the tone I’m …. Am I hearing lorries drive by in the background? Yes, I do.  Must be recorded in a church. In Berlin.

F5 has unnecessary eccentricities and a slow tempo in the Sarabande that doesn’t sit well with me. BORING. Next please. I’ve heard a favorite cellist (PW) of mine play this once for an encore [ed.: ...JUST LIKE THAT]… The light and accentuated Minuet, very nice, doesn’t mollify me enough at this point.

F3 Again. I know now why it flew buy: Because the Prelude is fast and leaves no track in the sand. It sounds cocky, actually. Barefoot, long hair, and with a swagger. Able, very able… but glib. That very sudden, negative attitude is ameliorated considerably by the Sarabande which has more seriousness and purpose. But then the mind drifts away again… HIP but with oomph.

F5 Again. Relistening to the Prelude. I like the life injected into this. Still, the cellist feels quite at liberty to do whatever he wants the fragilicity to do… but hey, why not. I like whatshisname, don’t I? So why wouldn’t I like this. I’m bracing myself for the Sarabande a second time, granted, but we’ll see. Well, past the Sarabande I like this again. I don’t know how much that sample would influence my appreciation of the whole set, since it’d be a much smaller percentage of the over-all impression… but I judge on this sample size and therefore F5 cannot take a top spot. On the other hand I’m afraid to toss out something that I quite like… so it shan’t get a vote that might help eliminate it. Only the second non-HIPster in this group

F6 Ah!! I may re-shuffle my list again to make room further up for F6. I like the first two minutes… reminds me of F1 (memory from last night). HIP… on second hearing not THAT interesting…


1 __ F2 & F1
3 __ F6 & F5
5 __ F4
6 __ F3

or maybe

1 __ F2 & F1
3 __ F5
4 __ F6
5 __ F4
6 __ F3

« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 02:44:52 AM by jlaurson »

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #86 on: February 16, 2015, 02:00:13 AM »
Thanks both and thanks for your comments jlaurson - a very interesting read.  C'mon folks, more comments, lets liven this up a little!

With just 2 votes per group in, F4 looks doomed and D4, D6, E3 and F3 are all badly in need of some support.  Big names, some of them.
But 8 have to go, so almost no-one is safe - D3, D5, F2 and F6 are the front runners so far - all rather surprising, to me.

…. Am I hearing lorries drive by in the background? Yes, I do.  Must be recorded in a church. In Berlin.

Wasn't it the Kingsway Hall in London which was a favourite recording venue back in the 60s and 70s, where reviewers sometimes commented on the sound of tube trains rumbling past.  Of course with longer takes, and with trains every 2 minutes or so, you can see the difficulty (though the tunnels are very deep in that part of London).  Really of course it was just a way for the reviewer to say "what big loudspeakers I've got".

... I’m bracing myself for the Sarabande a second time, granted, but we’ll see. Well, past the Sarabande I like this again. I don’t know how much that sample would influence my appreciation of the whole set, since it’d be a much smaller percentage of the over-all impression…

It's a point I have been thinking about, when planning round 2.  Overall the slow movements are 1/3 of the total (though rather more than that by duration) - so arguably they shouldn't carry too much weight in the blind comparison, but should have some bearing.  I must say they get a bit tedious when listening to 6 in a row ...
My plan for round 2 was to present (most of) Suite 6 - including two slow movements that both have significant points for comparison.  I'm beginning to think this will be too much, and will probably revise my ideas and only include the Allemande.

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #87 on: February 21, 2015, 07:48:25 PM »
Ok, round 2...er...1...:) (With only brief comments)

E1 - Excellent. Brilliant. I loved this from the first note. The performer has a depth of sound and interpretation. Occassionally seems a hair flat. But wonderful interpretation. 
E2 - Also well done, but colder, like an autumn outing. Where E1 is immediate and resonates, this one is less accesable. Slower sections seem to lose tension.
E3 - Older sound. More immediate than E2 and more nuance too. But some notes seem like afterthoughts. It doesn't lose the line like E2 sometimes seemed to do (lost me anyway).
E4 - Interesting. But too resonant for me. Shame, because it is well played. Seems to take more liberties with tempo. More sqwauking than I like. Still, the performer grabs you.
E5 - First since E1 to generate some real excitement. Some brilliant touches. Doesn't have quite that extra quality in E1, but some great playing here (and in some ways better control of the sound/intonation).
E6 - Hmm. I find this sound irritating for some reason - too bright, with too many pitch problems. More mechanical approach. Didn't gel with this one, but it's not poorly played.

Tough one. I think E1 is brilliant, but there was something about E5 that touched me. I suspect if one were to hear the whole thing, I'd pick E1 all the way, but I found E5 compelling, and so into first it goes. E1 grabs you from the first note and doesn't let go. E5 sort of gets under your skin. I will be getting both no matter the result (If I donn't already own them). They are that good.

Ranks:
1 E5
2 E1
3 E4
4 E6
5 E3
6 E2

Be kind to your fellow posters!!

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #88 on: February 22, 2015, 03:20:28 AM »
Thanks for your vote and comments.
Strange group, E - two performances have each attracted a '1st' and 'last' - while another has been consistently placed 3rd by everyone.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2015, 05:18:05 AM »
Thanks for your vote and comments.
Strange group, E - two performances have each attracted a '1st' and 'last' - while another has been consistently placed 3rd by everyone.

A few added comments to my votes above.

E1 (former B7 I suppose) tons of added embellishment and passing notes in the repeats. Certainly a hit or miss. In my case a miss. I suspect it is Lipkind.

E2 (former B10 ?) Noble and informed interpretation. Sounds in some way French, can´t tell whom, but it reminds me of someone like Philippe Muller or Anne Gastinel.

E3 (former B 2?) Casals, I suspect, good, but better has been done.

E4 (former B5)  Sigiswald Kuijken on spalla.

E5 (former B1?) imaginative playing full of life, probably Queyras or someone alike

E6 (the one added to group B to form group E?) A not too interesting interpretation by a player from the older generation, but the recording is somewhat newer, might be e.g. Janigro or Navarra.
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

jlaurson

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2015, 02:03:16 PM »
I'll need more time. With the friggin' soundcard on my computer, all but one sound like Heinrich Schiff, which is a nightmare. I'll be with my DAC / amp combo on Thursday. Early enough?

Offline aligreto

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2015, 02:49:29 PM »
I am new to the forum and have just caught up with this thread. I find it very interesting and intend to follow it through to its conclusion. I know that these things are very subjective but there are some really interesting results here. Starker would be one of my favourites but I was never fond of Rostropovich.
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Offline aukhawk

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2015, 01:04:57 AM »
Thursday will be fine - we can't really move on with less than 4 votes per group, and we're well short of that at the moment so I expect it to be a couple of weeks yet.

Thanks for your comments premont, and yes your alignment of E-group to B-group was spot on.  I don't really see any need to hide the history of each contender so ...
D1 was C5, D2~A1, D3~A10, D4~A5, D5~A8, D6~A3
E1 was B7, E2~B10, E3~B2, E4~B5, E5~B1, E6~C2
F1 was C7, F2~C6, F3~C10, F4~C3, F5~C1, F6~C8
and when we do get to the next round I'll make the history known for the 10 remaining, from the outset.

aligreto just let me know if you want to take part in the listening and I'll send you the links by PM - I'm still very short of votes so you'd be more than welcome to join in - but if not of course you're equally welcome as an onlooker  ;)
(There are 6 cellists in a group and each sample is around 13 minutes long - so less than 1h30 in total, to listen to)

Offline mszczuj

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2015, 10:16:37 AM »

F1 was C7, F2~C6, F3~C10, F4~C3, F5~C1, F6~C8


So at least I rejected the same interpretation I had rejected in the preliminary round.

It was very pity for me that interpretation which was on the very top in my list of wishes, I mean Cocset, was eliminated for some very irrelevant reasons. Hey people, you should buy some better equipment  if some reverb or some breath make music unlistaneble for you! You can do it on ebay for ca 300$, I think. There is a lot of great music you have no chance to listen.

But then we don't know what was the C5 (which I choose to listen) and C2 (which I rejected).
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 12:20:49 PM by mszczuj »

Offline aligreto

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2015, 12:13:48 PM »

aligreto just let me know if you want to take part in the listening and I'll send you the links by PM - I'm still very short of votes so you'd be more than welcome to join in - but if not of course you're equally welcome as an onlooker  ;)
(There are 6 cellists in a group and each sample is around 13 minutes long - so less than 1h30 in total, to listen to)

If I am not too late then I would certainly like to join in. Send me the lonks please at your leisure.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline aukhawk

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2015, 02:39:16 AM »
PM sent, welcome aboard.

Offline Jo498

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #96 on: February 24, 2015, 03:04:44 AM »
I'll give a ranking of group f tonight, sorry for the delay.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Jo498

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #97 on: February 24, 2015, 01:20:20 PM »
F1 o.k. but not very special

F 2 quite intense, rhetoric without being too exaggerated

F 3 also quite good while less intense

F4 viola (or sth higher pitched than cello anyway) quite good but because of the higher pitch somewhat straining

F5 strange mannerisms in the prelude and everywhere, sound also not always pleasant. wild rubato. Don't like this one

F6 very fast and "light" prelude, quite energetic. Also good in the d minor suite

F6
F2
F3
F4
F1
F5
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline aligreto

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2015, 01:51:52 PM »
PM sent, welcome aboard.

Thank you. I will check out the links and report back asap.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.

Offline aligreto

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2015, 12:48:59 PM »
In order of preference....

1 - D6

2 - D1

3 - D5

4 - D3

5 - D4

6 - D2
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and leave no doubt.