Author Topic: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites  (Read 39330 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #280 on: September 13, 2021, 03:48:29 AM »
Tantalisingly in 2013 Davitt Moroney wrote a paper for the Oxford Early Music Review on Leonhardt’s understanding of authenticity in performance, but I can’t get my mitts on it!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Selig

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #281 on: September 13, 2021, 09:50:16 AM »
He omits all repeats in the new recording. In my opinion he delivers a truncated version even if well played. Some years ago he recorded suites no. 1, 2 and 6 doing all the repeats.

Are you sure he has recorded suite no. 1? I can't seem to find it. Is it on a commercial recording?

Offline Selig

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #282 on: September 13, 2021, 09:51:53 AM »
Tantalisingly in 2013 Davitt Moroney wrote a paper for the Oxford Early Music Review on Leonhardt’s understanding of authenticity in performance, but I can’t get my mitts on it!

Good to be reminded, I skimmed it a while ago and it seemed interesting. Here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IGyU5sdZJxqisxGv2-BVtEmJV48ZOf-S/view

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #283 on: September 13, 2021, 11:20:49 AM »
Good to be reminded, I skimmed it a while ago and it seemed interesting. Here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IGyU5sdZJxqisxGv2-BVtEmJV48ZOf-S/view

Excellent, thank you.

It may be useful to collect together the paragraphs of Leonhardt's paper on authenticity in English:

Quote
On performance using original instruments

If one is able to persuade, what is offered creates an
authentic impression. If one is striving to be authentic,
one will never persuade. Only those performers who
attempt—in general—to penetrate into the world of ideas
of a great mind and of his epoch can, if they have acquired
a suitable technique and possess that mysterious thing, natural talent, arouse that impression of offering some-
thing true and sincere.


However, a performance of a piece of music can never
be authentic, since music itself evades being pinned down.
What makes music is not the notes but the sounds. Even
composers give to each performance [of their own works]
a new authenticity.


It seems to me that more essential than the antithesis
‘authentic/inauthentic’ (and who would be able to pass
judgement here?) is the matter of artistic quality, which is
hard to define in words (the heart has its reasons . . .); on
this matter one can only leave the audience to pass judge-
ment—the audience that itself changes, however, just as
the musician does. (Certain short-circuits can occasion-
ally be attributed to the fact that these changes do not
happen in a synchronized way and it is not always the
musicians who lead the way . . .!)


I hope that this recording will not be characterized
as ‘definitive’ or ‘authentic’ because of its cast of players.
It was performed by musicians who consider histori-
cal enquiry as vital and as belonging to their métier, yet
without perceiving this to be ‘unusual’ or stressing it in
particular. The use of historical instruments is also not
abnormal, or at any rate not for the players. For many
listeners the sonorities may still seem unfamiliar; but
these [listeners] may, by closer ‘synchronization’ of their
listening, come to acknowledge that the balance between
the different instruments now happens completely natu-
rally; that the multiplicity of shadings of sonorities and
the subtleties of intonation of the woodwind instruments
(compared to the smoothness of later instruments), con-
stitutes a richness; that the string instruments have a
leaner yet richer sound quality than do those of a later
period (which are suitable for different music). The ear
becomes accustomed to all this more quickly than one
would believe, and that is good: because the instruments
have then once again become, for both players and lis-
teners, literally ‘instruments’ in the service of music, and
all ‘connoisseurs and true lovers’ [of music] can, in con-
stantly renewed amazement, surrender themselves to the
unfailing sense of measure and the boundless creativity of
Johann Sebastian Bach.

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #284 on: September 13, 2021, 11:53:23 AM »
Are you sure he has recorded suite no. 1? I can't seem to find it. Is it on a commercial recording?

Well, I own the recording in question, so I am rather sure.

It's here:

https://www.amazon.de/13-Strings-Vol-violoncello-2013-08-03/dp/B01KB0GHC8/ref=sr_1_7?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&dchild=1&keywords=sergey+malov&qid=1631566331&s=music&sr=1-7
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #285 on: September 13, 2021, 12:48:34 PM »
Good to be reminded, I skimmed it a while ago and it seemed interesting. Here it is:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IGyU5sdZJxqisxGv2-BVtEmJV48ZOf-S/view

Thanks, Selig for this interesting article.
As soon as a word has left the lips, not even the fastest horse can catch up with it.

Offline Iota

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Re: Blind comparison: Bach Cello Suites
« Reply #286 on: September 15, 2021, 07:44:11 AM »
By the way, arguably in the Goldberg Variations for example, the function of the repeats is to do with the balance of the whole. They're not there as a vehicle to display the performer's ingenuity.

Certainly feels that way to me, I find the Goldberg's now without repeats virtually intolerable. Which rules out Gould for the rare occasions I'm in the mood for him (though I seem to remember you never are ..).