Author Topic: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)  (Read 97545 times)

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Offline not edward

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Re: Penderecki Violin Concerti
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2008, 07:51:35 PM »
Are there other Penderecki symphonies that you really like?
Not hugely. The Third has a superb central slow movement and is probably my favourite of the seven (I don't think there's a 6th yet). I do really like the Second, mostly because it's almost comically overwrought yet done with great flair, but I don't think it's particularly 'great' music.
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Offline MDL

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Re: Penderecki Violin Concerti
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2008, 02:41:17 AM »
Not hugely. The Third has a superb central slow movement and is probably my favourite of the seven (I don't think there's a 6th yet). I do really like the Second, mostly because it's almost comically overwrought yet done with great flair, but I don't think it's particularly 'great' music.

I agree; the Second Symphony is way over the top, but it works, in its doom-laden, gnashing-of-teeth kind of way. The First, Penderecki's last attempt at avant-garde music, is impressive in parts.

Offline Guido

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2008, 04:37:31 AM »
I agree with most of the people here - the late stuff is just far too rambling to be of any lasting interest, even if individual sections are beautiful or interesting. I just wish the fairly recent concerto grosso for 3 cellos and orchestra (2001) was more memorable - I would have loved to have performed it as I have two very good cellist friends with which I play cello trios. It's just too long and monotonous. The same might be said (though perhaps less so) for the Largo for cello and orchestra which was premiered by Rostropovich the last time he played in public (2003).

The two earlier cello concertos are extremely fine though - people have mentioned the first - portions of which were used in the Exorcist and the Shining! - but the second concerto, which Rostropovich comissioned and premiered (after only 2 weeks of practice time) in 1981 is also very fine indeed - right on the cusp between Pederecki's neo romantic and avant-guard styles. It may be a touch long still, but I find it far more logical and dramatic than the later neo romantic works.


this CD, including an arrangement sanctioned by the composer of the early viola concerto is very good indeed - Arto Noras is one of the cello 'greats', sadly not recognised much outside of Scandinavia.
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Offline MDL

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2008, 05:39:45 AM »
Has anyone heard his second opera, Paradise Lost? I haven't, but I get the impression that's one lo-o-o-o-ong slog.

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2008, 05:48:52 AM »
I taped Paradise Lost off the air when it was first broadcast, some time in the late 70s. I thought it pretty impressive for the first 15 minutes or so, but the music didn't change very much over the next couple hours.

In fact everything Penderecki has written since the mid 70s is made up entirely of chromatic scale fragments, a few notes up, then a few notes down, a few notes up again, and so on. Sometimes he does it better than others, but it's always the same basic thing.

greg

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Re: Penderecki Violin Concerti
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2008, 05:57:14 AM »
Does anyone have an opinion of Penderecki's VIOLIN CONCERTI (1 or 2)?


the 1st is better.


In fact everything Penderecki has written since the mid 70s is made up entirely of chromatic scale fragments, a few notes up, then a few notes down, a few notes up again, and so on. Sometimes he does it better than others, but it's always the same basic thing.
"extensive use of chromatic plus the interval of a tritone"
knowing that, i'm able to transcribe many of his melodies  ;D

Offline Maciek

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2008, 06:21:49 AM »
Has anyone heard his second opera, Paradise Lost? I haven't, but I get the impression that's one lo-o-o-o-ong slog.

Actually, I loved it. But that might have been partly due to the great production. Also - it was a long time ago...

I think some of his later stuff is more than OK ("some" meaning "very little" in this context 0:)). (Besides, his early music wasn't exactly the most complicated stuff ever written either... ::)) Of those later pieces, I especially like the Credo. And those movements of the 8th that I've heard were surprisingly good too. What I find odd though is that just a couple of months ago, back in October 2007, the man said in an interview he still hadn't finished his 8th - had only half of it completed - and didn't know when it would be done. But the Naxos recording features Drabowicz who died in March 2007! What the hell is happening? Also: the recording is only about 6 minutes longer than the performance I posted. ??? But during that interview he clearly stated that what is about to be performed is very far from completion, as the whole thing would be more than twice as long (the interview I'm talking about was given right before that performance). I'm suspecting foul play: this has happened before with his Polish Requiem which was "first" recorded by Polskie Nagrania but in the next couple of years he continued adding on to it, and the final piece was much longer... :-\

greg

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2008, 06:24:07 AM »
Actually, I loved it. But that might have been partly due to the great production. Also - it was a long time ago...

I think some of his later stuff is more than OK ("some" meaning "very little" in this context 0:)). (Besides, his early music wasn't exactly the most complicated stuff ever written either... ::)) Of those later pieces, I especially like the Credo. And those movements of the 8th that I've heard were surprisingly good too. What I find odd though is that just a couple of months ago, back in October 2007, the man said in an interview he still hadn't finished his 8th - had only half of it completed - and didn't know when it would be done. But the Naxos recording features Drabowicz who died in March 2007! What the hell is happening? Also: the recording is only about 6 minutes longer than the performance I posted. ??? But during that interview he clearly stated that what is about to be performed is very far from completion, as the whole thing would be more than twice as long (the interview I'm talking about was given right before that performance). I'm suspecting foul play: this has happened before with his Polish Requiem which was "first" recorded by Polskie Nagrania but in the next couple of years he continued adding on to it, and the final piece was much longer... :-\
crazy stuff..... maybe he'll make the extended version of his 8th later and call it his 6th? The absence of a 6th really bothers me.....

Offline Maciek

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2008, 03:25:17 PM »
Hope you guys appreciate having a seer on board! ;D

Today in Warsaw a new, expanded version of the 8th Symphony was given its premiere performance. This new version is not the definitive one yet. The composer repeated in an interview that the final version will be about 70 minutes long. The current version is in 3 large movements - it has a new, slightly expanded and re-orchestrated finale + an additional new Eschenbach setting.

Other news (from the same interview): the composer is currently working on a Horn Concerto. He is also getting ready to write a 3rd String Quartet (I always considered Der unterbrochene Gedanke to be that but apparently I was wrong). He did mention the 6th Symphony! (He is not planning to write more than 9 of them, BTW.) The 6th is probably going to be a one-movement piece, an elegy for a dying forest. He is probably going to get it done once the concerto and quartet are finished. He is also thinking about two opera projects, both of them generally conceived quite a long time ago: Fedra and an opera for children.

Offline Brewski

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2008, 03:28:01 PM »
Hope you guys appreciate having a seer on board! ;D


I certainly do!  Wow, thanks for the info...

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Offline MDL

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2008, 04:52:12 AM »
The new Naxos recording of Symphony No.8 gets a pretty negative review in the March Gramophone. I don't think it's as bad as the reviewer claims, but I can't say I was bowled over by it. However, there's enough of interest to encourage a few more listens, so I haven't given up on it yet.

The performance of the Dies Irae is great and the Psalms of David is pretty good, even if the syncopations of the third movement aren't as well judged as the old Wergo recording. I hope Naxos has plans to record Utrenja and Kosmogonia.

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2008, 07:00:13 AM »
He did mention the 6th Symphony! (He is not planning to write more than 9 of them, BTW.)

And why should he, when all he has to do is keep adding to the ones he's already got?

Offline Maciek

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2008, 11:48:07 AM »
The performance of the Dies Irae is great

You mean "on its own" or are you comparing it to a specific different performance?

Offline MDL

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2008, 02:22:27 AM »
You mean "on its own" or are you comparing it to a specific different performance?

I've got two other recordings, conducted by Czyz and Kawalla. You're a real Penderecki enthusiast, so I assume you have both of those already! The Wit is better recorded than either. If it's not quite as intense as the Czyz, it's much better than the boxy, unatmospheric Kawalla.

greg

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2008, 11:01:58 AM »
Hope you guys appreciate having a seer on board! ;D

Today in Warsaw a new, expanded version of the 8th Symphony was given its premiere performance. This new version is not the definitive one yet. The composer repeated in an interview that the final version will be about 70 minutes long. The current version is in 3 large movements - it has a new, slightly expanded and re-orchestrated finale + an additional new Eschenbach setting.

Other news (from the same interview): the composer is currently working on a Horn Concerto. He is also getting ready to write a 3rd String Quartet (I always considered Der unterbrochene Gedanke to be that but apparently I was wrong). He did mention the 6th Symphony! (He is not planning to write more than 9 of them, BTW.) The 6th is probably going to be a one-movement piece, an elegy for a dying forest. He is probably going to get it done once the concerto and quartet are finished. He is also thinking about two opera projects, both of them generally conceived quite a long time ago: Fedra and an opera for children.
Excellent to hear, Maciek!
I hope he does get to 9..... if history likes to repeat itself  >:D...

Offline Maciek

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2008, 02:52:34 PM »
I've got two other recordings, conducted by Czyz and Kawalla. You're a real Penderecki enthusiast, so I assume you have both of those already! The Wit is better recorded than either. If it's not quite as intense as the Czyz, it's much better than the boxy, unatmospheric Kawalla.

Thanks. 8) I've never heard the Kawalla (and after that succinct review - I don't want to ;D).

BTW, I just hate it that many of my favorite recordings of these "contemporary" works have to retreat before newer ones because of sound issues. Eg. it's the same with my favorite Lutosławski First (under Krenz): it's a great. joyful interpretation but the sound is distant and muffled - it immediately loses ground when put alongside Wit's Naxos recording (which is also excellent but too tense for my taste). I keep running into this problem with Czyż (who happens to be one of my 2 favorite Polish conductors - the other is Krenz, of course ;D) - his recordings from the 50s and 60s are not old enough to be really "historical" (yet?) and not young enough to be up to today's technical standards...

Sorry for going OT. ;D

greg

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2008, 03:47:12 PM »
anyone read this interview here?
http://www.bruceduffie.com/penderecki.html

Extremely interesting read from the master.......
in fact, i think i'll have to read and reread this one, especially the part where he explains his process of composing....

oh, and too bad he isn't going to write an Ocarina Concerto!  ;D


Offline Maciek

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2008, 07:40:14 AM »
Thanks for the link! 8)

What are the pieces he's talking about when he mentions the Czech language??

greg

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2008, 09:36:06 AM »
I don't know, he's probably had several different works sung in Czech, so he probably just means any of them, instead of specific ones.



Offline Maciek

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Re: Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933)
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2008, 09:41:45 AM »
I hate to come across as an ignoramus, but here, it can't be helped... 0:) Obviously, he has to have something important in mind, but I'm not aware of a single Pendercki piece with a Czech text! :o Help me out here, somebody!