Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

Started by Maciek, April 12, 2007, 03:43:03 PM

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DavidW

I think Greg became desensitized due to the dramatic increase in graphic violence in movies over the decades.  Most of the great 70s horror movies (except I suppose the cult classics) were more subtle.  Flash forward to today and I remember seeing a movie just a few years back where a family gets run over by a mower.

Well I still think that the Exorcist is the best horror movie ever made.  It has pitch perfect pacing and character development.  Most horror movies make the characters unlikable or unmemorable so you root for the killer/evil whatever.  But not this movie.  It is story and themes first, gore and set pieces second.

Mirror Image

Quote from: DavidW on September 28, 2021, 03:36:40 AM
I think Greg became desensitized due to the dramatic increase in graphic violence in movies over the decades.  Most of the great 70s horror movies (except I suppose the cult classics) were more subtle.  Flash forward to today and I remember seeing a movie just a few years back where a family gets run over by a mower.

Well I still think that the Exorcist is the best horror movie ever made.  It has pitch perfect pacing and character development.  Most horror movies make the characters unlikable or unmemorable so you root for the killer/evil whatever.  But not this movie.  It is story and themes first, gore and set pieces second.

Absolutely. The Shining and The Fly (although not strictly "horror" but rather science fiction horror) are two other examples of where there's constant development of the characters and the descent into madness breaks the heart.

greg

Quote from: DavidW on September 28, 2021, 03:36:40 AM
I think Greg became desensitized due to the dramatic increase in graphic violence in movies over the decades.  Most of the great 70s horror movies (except I suppose the cult classics) were more subtle.  Flash forward to today and I remember seeing a movie just a few years back where a family gets run over by a mower.

Well I still think that the Exorcist is the best horror movie ever made.  It has pitch perfect pacing and character development.  Most horror movies make the characters unlikable or unmemorable so you root for the killer/evil whatever.  But not this movie.  It is story and themes first, gore and set pieces second.
Idk about that, watched it probably a decade ago IIRC, and before that wasn't regularly watching many gory or scary movies (would be a rare thing especially with my family). Last two years or so I've been watching them more, mainly ones I've heard about or missed out on.

I just don't find movies, games (or books, to add to that) particularly scary. But they can be cool- the horror aesthetic is great. Movies with gore can be gross, though, not a fan of too much gore. What I have found to be VERY scary, though, is VR horror games. Some of the most terrifying moments of my life there. But strangely enough, once I just get into the mode of "lol it's not even real," then I can turn the fear switch off very easily, and go through any "scary" situation fearlessly.

Surely I bet you could find other people that feel the same way, even if it isn't a majority opinion.
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TheGSMoeller

Lots of recent talk about Penderecki here so I thought I would I share a piece of his that has really impressed me, Utrenja. It is endlessly fascinating and powerful. I don't have a ton of knowledge of Penderecki's works, in fact someone from GMG might've sent me this CD (see below) along with a few others.


Mirror Image

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 04, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
Lots of recent talk about Penderecki here so I thought I would I share a piece of his that has really impressed me, Utrenja. It is endlessly fascinating and powerful. I don't have a ton of knowledge of Penderecki's works, in fact someone from GMG might've sent me this CD (see below) along with a few others.



A frightening piece, but I do love it quite a bit I must say. I wouldn't rank it ahead of St. Luke Passion, but there are some terrifying moments in Utrenja. I like the Wit performance, but can definitely recommend this one as well:


Mirror Image

Damn, maybe I should change my avatar back to Penderecki. :P

Maestro267

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 04, 2021, 07:00:43 PM
A frightening piece, but I do love it quite a bit I must say. I wouldn't rank it ahead of St. Luke Passion, but there are some terrifying moments in Utrenja. I like the Wit performance, but can definitely recommend this one as well:



Does this recording include the sung text? That's a massive hurdle for me in this work, the lack of followable libretto in the Wit recording. I know there's probably copyright reasons, but surely they should be able to negotiate those if they're to release a recording of a difficult-to-follow work.

Brahmsian

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 04, 2021, 07:00:43 PM
A frightening piece, but I do love it quite a bit I must say. I wouldn't rank it ahead of St. Luke Passion, but there are some terrifying moments in Utrenja. I like the Wit performance, but can definitely recommend this one as well:



Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 04, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
Lots of recent talk about Penderecki here so I thought I would I share a piece of his that has really impressed me, Utrenja. It is endlessly fascinating and powerful. I don't have a ton of knowledge of Penderecki's works, in fact someone from GMG might've sent me this CD (see below) along with a few others.



Yup!  :)


Brahmsian

Well, we know that music is the greatest gift humanity has bestowed upon humanity, there isn't anything else remotely close.

AND, I received a gift of this gift, courtesy of John (MI).   :)  Another wonderful surprise, and a tremendous recording!  8)  Many thanks, John.


Cato

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 04, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
Lots of recent talk about Penderecki here so I thought I would I share a piece of his that has really impressed me, Utrenja. It is endlessly fascinating and powerful. I don't have a ton of knowledge of Penderecki's works, in fact someone from GMG might've sent me this CD (see below) along with a few others.



I invested in the score in the 1970's when only Part I was available: a friend imported it for me from Germany.  (I just unpacked it last week. )   I was particularly interested in Penderecki's use of quarter-tones 

Yes, an excellent work!
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Mirror Image

Quote from: Maestro267 on October 04, 2021, 10:05:23 PM
Does this recording include the sung text? That's a massive hurdle for me in this work, the lack of followable libretto in the Wit recording. I know there's probably copyright reasons, but surely they should be able to negotiate those if they're to release a recording of a difficult-to-follow work.

Unfortunately, it does not. To be honest, I'm not all that crazy about Utrenja as I revisited some of it last night and it seems my impressions weren't very favorable this time around. I believe he wrote better choral works than this one like Magnificat for example. Of course, A Polish Requiem, St. Luke Passion and Seven Gates of Jerusalem, "Symphony No. 7" are more of my thing.

Mirror Image

Quote from: OrchestralNut on October 05, 2021, 05:03:06 AM
Well, we know that music is the greatest gift humanity has bestowed upon humanity, there isn't anything else remotely close.

AND, I received a gift of this gift, courtesy of John (MI).   :)  Another wonderful surprise, and a tremendous recording!  8)  Many thanks, John.



Pounds the table!

Brahmsian

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 05, 2021, 07:28:51 AM
Unfortunately, it does not. To be honest, I'm not all that crazy about Utrenja as I revisited some of it last night and it seems my impressions weren't very favorable this time around. I believe he wrote better choral works than this one like Magnificat for example. Of course, A Polish Requiem, St. Luke Passion and Seven Gates of Jerusalem, "Symphony No. 7" are more of my thing.

Well John, this is where you and I are at different opinions within our admiration of Penderecki. I love Utrenja and it is my favourite choral work of his alongside the St. Luke Passion.

Mirror Image

Quote from: OrchestralNut on October 05, 2021, 07:43:47 AM
Well John, this is where you and I are at different opinions within our admiration of Penderecki. I love Utrenja and it is my favourite choral work of his alongside the St. Luke Passion.

Different tastes are always a good thing I say. 8)

Brahmsian


Brahmsian



First listen to this disc, and it is a whopper of a great one at that!  All of these works are unique and quite different from one and the other.  They also span the whole of Penderecki's musical life and thus reflect the whole gamut of his different styles.

I'll give it a 9/10, and the only reason it isn't a 10 is the performance of the 1st quartet is not quite as well articulated as other recordings I have heard before (Kohon and LaSalle).  I find it a bit lacking in detail compared to these recordings.  Nevertheless, this is huge success of a recording as a whole!  :)

Particularly great standouts are the String Quartet No. 3 "Leaves from an Unwritten Diary" and String Quartet No. 4.  Both are showstoppers!   8)

Maestro267

Wow, 4 quartets and a trio crammed into just a 52-minute disc? Didn't write much for the form, did he?

Mirror Image

Quote from: Maestro267 on October 05, 2021, 09:06:29 AM
Wow, 4 quartets and a trio crammed into just a 52-minute disc? Didn't write much for the form, did he?

The 1st and 2nd SQs are short works and the 4th SQ was left behind as a fragment I'm assuming.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: OrchestralNut on October 05, 2021, 08:57:45 AM


First listen to this disc, and it is a whopper of a great one at that!  All of these works are unique and quite different from one and the other.  They also span the whole of Penderecki's musical life and thus reflect the whole gamut of his different styles.

I'll give it a 9/10, and the only reason it isn't a 10 is the performance of the 1st quartet is not quite as well articulated as other recordings I have heard before (Kohon and LaSalle).  I find it a bit lacking in detail compared to these recordings.  Nevertheless, this is huge success of a recording as a whole!  :)

Particularly great standouts are the String Quartet No. 3 "Leaves from an Unwritten Diary" and String Quartet No. 4.  Both are showstoppers!   8)

There is also this Chandos disc devoted to his string quartets, and I was thinking about how they would compare. This is superb music.

Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 04, 2021, 06:10:37 PM
Lots of recent talk about Penderecki here so I thought I would I share a piece of his that has really impressed me, Utrenja. It is endlessly fascinating and powerful. I don't have a ton of knowledge of Penderecki's works, in fact someone from GMG might've sent me this CD (see below) along with a few others.



I have the recording on the Polish label, and it's indeed a terryfying and gripping masterpiece.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky