Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

[Cato]

Just listened to the Third Symphony and the Piano Concerto #1 (Resurrection) via YouTube.  The comments there are all over the place, some wanting the 1950's-1970's experimenter to come back, others preferring the post 1970's Penderecki.

His official website is el sucko profundo      and seems not to have been properly updated in 5 years or more.

Schott Publishing offers a preview of the score for the Sixth Symphony (Chinese Songs).

https://en.schott-music.com/shop/6-sinfonie-chinesische-lieder-no358733.html

[TheGSMoeller]

Just listened to the Third Symphony and the Piano Concerto #1 (Resurrection) via YouTube.  The comments there are all over the place, some wanting the 1950's-1970's experimenter to come back, others preferring the post 1970's Penderecki.

Hi, Cato. I recently read a section from Penderecki's Wikipedia page about this...

Around the mid-1970s, while he was a professor at the Yale School of Music,[15] Penderecki's style began to change. The Violin Concerto No. 1 largely leaves behind the dense tone clusters with which he had been associated, and instead focuses on two melodic intervals: the semitone and the tritone. This direction continued with the Symphony No. 2, Christmas (1980), which is harmonically and melodically quite straightforward. It makes frequent use of the tune of the Christmas carol Silent Night.

Penderecki explained this shift by stating that he had come to feel that the experimentation of the avant-garde had gone too far from the expressive, non-formal qualities of Western music: 'The avant-garde gave one an illusion of universalism. The musical world of Stockhausen, Nono, Boulez and Cage was for us, the young – hemmed in by the aesthetics of socialist realism, then the official canon in our country – a liberation...I was quick to realise however, that this novelty, this experimentation and formal speculation, is more destructive than constructive; I realised the Utopian quality of its Promethean tone'. Penderecki concluded that he was 'saved from the avant-garde snare of formalism by a return to tradition'.[11]

[Maestro267]

I really think the significance of the Silent Night quotation is overstated. It's a vast misrepresentation of what the Symphony No. 2 is about. It's literally four notes of it. Nothing more. Certainly not worth titling the whole symphony "Christmas", and giving it a reputation that it doesn't need.

It's a fantastic work, probably my favourite symphony of his (No. 7 runs it close). Just it has extremely little to do with Christmas.

Also, I'm relieved this thread bump wasn't to give us the worst news.

[Maciek]

Well, one could easily argue that the opening motif of the symphony is based on the Christmas carol. The melodic material opening the symphony consists of a descending minor third (repeated thrice), an ascending major seventh, followed by another descending minor third. Compare that to the beginning of "Silent night", which is essentially two descending minor thirds (slightly embellished), an ascending seventh (a minor seventh, but still), and another descending minor third. Once you see the similarity, I'm sure you will be able to hear it too. The motif is a sort of distorted version of (or rather a variation on) the Christmas carol, at least that's how I would interpret it. I think the title of the symphony comes from the composer (I'm not 100% sure, though?).

[Cato]

Hi, Cato. I recently read a section from Penderecki's Wikipedia page about this...



Penderecki explained this shift by stating that he had come to feel that the experimentation of the avant-garde had gone too far from the expressive, non-formal qualities of Western music: 'The avant-garde gave one an illusion of universalism. The musical world of Stockhausen, Nono, Boulez and Cage was for us, the young – hemmed in by the aesthetics of socialist realism, then the official canon in our country – a liberation...I was quick to realise however, that this novelty, this experimentation and formal speculation, is more destructive than constructive; I realised the Utopian quality of its Promethean tone'. Penderecki concluded that he was 'saved from the avant-garde snare of formalism by a return to tradition'.[11]

Greetings and Many Thanks for the reference!  I do recall Penderecki basically saying that he had reached a dead end with the Hiroshima/Devils of Loudon/etc. style, and I also recall how some people were shocked by the Second Symphony c.35 years ago and then by subsequent works.

I once attended a Cleveland Orchestra concert in the 1990's (I think, possibly the early 2000's) where the opening work was his Viola Concerto.  I would need to hear it again, but my impression was that a good deal of it reminded me of the opening minutes of Schoenberg's Pelleas und Melisande.   Certainly things became more energetic during the work, but that impression remained with me. 

The rest of the concert was filled by Bruckner's   Fifth Symphony!

Well, one could easily argue that the opening motif of the symphony is based on the Christmas carol. The melodic material opening the symphony consists of a descending minor third (repeated thrice), an ascending major seventh, followed by another descending minor third. Compare that to the beginning of "Silent night", which is essentially two descending minor thirds (slightly embellished), an ascending seventh (a minor seventh, but still), and another descending minor third. Once you see the similarity, I'm sure you will be able to hear it too. The motif is a sort of distorted version of (or rather a variation on) the Christmas carol, at least that's how I would interpret it. I think the title of the symphony comes from the composer (I'm not 100% sure, though?).

Yes, I think it is easily argued also.  0:)

[relm1]

Am I too greedy to want a Symphony No. 9 from him?  He's had such a wonderful and interesting musical trajectory that I need a No. 9 that sums it all up and is the culmination of everything that has come before.

[Cato]

I came across this comment in a review (by Phillip Scott of Fanfare ) of a complete set of Karl Amadeus Hartmann's symphonies, and I thought it applied to Penderecki, at least tangentially:

Hartmann revitalized the Austro-German symphonic tradition in the mid-20th century, at a time when the symphony was famously "dead." Boulez and Stockhausen had no time for his vast canvasses, but he knew what he was doing. From the vantage point of 2014 we can see that the revolutionaries of half a century ago were writing in a stylistic cul de sac . Their music is not to be dismissed, but too often they and their imitators discarded all the historical bathwater––and we know what is liable to happen in that scenario. Conversely, Hartmann's output has gained in stature with time. The fact that it is now far removed from the events that colored it does not diminish its power to speak to us, which is all the more reason to celebrate this excellent release.

[Cato]

His official website is el sucko profundo      and seems not to have been properly updated in 5 years or more.

Schott Publishing offers a preview of the score for the Sixth Symphony (Chinese Songs).

https://en.schott-music.com/shop/6-sinfonie-chinesische-lieder-no358733.html

6th symphony to be (finally) performed in 4 days. He says it's his last experience in the genre:

No recording of the Sixth Symphony yet.   Nothing on YouTube.  His website does not show the Sixth (subtitled "Chinese songs," in the German translation of Hans Bethge ) among his list of works.

Anybody have any news?

[greg]

Speaking of symphony 6, i read about it being performed last year but still could find no info, either.

Which ties back to my biggest frustration about classical music in general- even for some of the greatest living composers, very few people really give a shit about new music, and it can be very hard to get a hold of, as performances are prioritized over recordings.

I'd love to listen to Symphony 6, but it's like no one really cares...

[Cato]

Speaking of symphony 6, i read about it being performed last year but still could find no info, either.

Which ties back to my biggest frustration about classical music in general- even for some of the greatest living composers, very few people really give a shit about new music, and it can be very hard to get a hold of, as performances are prioritized over recordings.


I'd love to listen to Symphony 6, but it's like no one really cares...

I understand your frustration, but the lowest common denominator sells: two or three drug-addled morons pound out a beat, while some cocained doggerel chanter spits out obscenities, their company promotes them as "geniuses with a message," and for 18 months they are more famous than Jesus  0:)   

Twenty years ago or so, I found copies of a popular magazine from the 1940's with an advertisement from RCA (Radio Corporation of America).  The ad pushed RCA record players by offering....A Guide to Classical Music!  It showed the typical 1940's guy in a suit about to enter a concert hall, and he is remarking to his wife: "Just think: a few weeks ago I didn't know Brahms from Beethoven."    If you bought the record player, you received a set of records to guide you through the history of Western Music.

The assumption was that readers of this magazine were likely to want to know more about - and listen to - classical music.  The assumption was that a market existed for it, perhaps not on the level of Frank Sinatra, but big enough to use this desire as a hook to sell their products.  And if people did not WANT to know more, there was an implication in the ad that they SHOULD, in order to be considered educated and well-rounded adults.

It is all gone! 

In 1937, Universal Studios produced a hit musical comedy with teenage sensation (16 years old at the time!)  Deanna Durbin using the following music:

    "Symphony No. 5 in E minor: Fourth Movement" (Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky) performed by a symphony orchestra conducted by    Leopold Stokowski
    "It's Raining Sunbeams" (Friedrich Hollaender, Sam Coslow) performed by Deanna Durbin
    "Rakoczy March" (Hector Berlioz) performed by a symphony orchestra conducted by Leopold Stokowski
    "A Heart That's Free" (Alfred G. Robyn, Thomas Railey) performed by Deanna Durbin
    "Zampa, ou la fiancée de marbre: Overture" (Ferdinand Hérold) performed by the unemployed orchestra
    "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" (Traditional) performed by the unemployed orchestra
    "Lohengrin: Prelude to Act III" (Richard Wagner) performed by a symphony orchestra conducted by Leopold Stokowski
   "Brindisi" (Drinking Song) from (Verdi's opera La Traviata.  performed by Deanna Durbin
    "Alleluja" from the motet "Exultate, jubilate" (K.165) (Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart) performed by Deanna Durbin.

The movie used Leopold Stokowski playing himself, and I highlighted what Deanna Durbin sings in the movie: two popular songs and the Verdi and Mozart pieces.

Now imagine taking this soundtrack to a movie studio today and suggesting using e.g. Taylor Swift
as the singer and Michael Tilson-Thomas as himself!   

Yes, everyone knows what would happen! 

The movie?

[greg]

Yep, you won't see that today. 

Also mixed feelings about convincing others to try classical music to be more well rounded... It's better than nothing, for sure. But it should be about enjoyment rather than self improvement. It should be cake, not broccoli... I guess a lot of people are not very musically inclined 

Maybe the only way the future has any chance is if we put some famous rapper and made him write modern style orchestral works and talk about composers... 

[SymphonicAddict]

I've given some spins to some works of his:

Fonogrammi
Capriccio for oboe and strings
Sonata for cello and orchestra
Capriccio for violin and orchestra
Partita for harpsichord, electric guitar, bass guitar, harp, double bass and chamber orchestra (quite a long name btw!)

By listening to these works, I seem to agree with those claiming that his early works are better than the most modern ones. Oh my goodness, what demonic stuff!! Mercilessly impressive, fascinating, weird, bizarre, inventive, intriguing, there is such a wealth of ideas and cacophonic sonorities/textures that simply my facial expression to all of them is     

I already knew some of his other works of this period (Symphony No. 1, Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, De natura sonoris I & II, Kosmogonia, and Polymorphia) and I found them all great as well.

It's quite good to refresh my ears with this kind of music.

[kyjo]

I've given some spins to some works of his:

Fonogrammi
Capriccio for oboe and strings
Sonata for cello and orchestra
Capriccio for violin and orchestra
Partita for harpsichord, electric guitar, bass guitar, harp, double bass and chamber orchestra (quite a long name btw!)

By listening to these works, I seem to agree with those claiming that his early works are better than the most modern ones. Oh my goodness, what demonic stuff!! Mercilessly impressive, fascinating, weird, bizarre, inventive, intriguing, there is such a wealth of ideas and cacophonic sonorities/textures that simply my facial expression to all of them is     

I already knew some of his other works of this period (Symphony No. 1, Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima, De natura sonoris I & II, Kosmogonia, and Polymorphia) and I found them all great as well.

It's quite good to refresh my ears with this kind of music.

Very interesting, Cesar - thanks for the post. I've always been a bit "scared" of Penderecki's early works, but I should give them a try based on your enthusiasm!

[SymphonicAddict]

Very interesting, Cesar - thanks for the post. I've always been a bit "scared" of Penderecki's early works, but I should give them a try based on your enthusiasm!

Anyone who is receptive and curious shouldn't have any problem with that music. The scary feeling is precisely the biggest attractive of those works, the nightmare atmospheres they evoke.

[Cato]

Anyone who is receptive and curious shouldn't have any problem with that music. The scary feeling is precisely the biggest attractive of those works, the nightmare atmospheres they evoke.

Quite true!

I came across this performance today: What say ye about the "Resurrection Piano Concerto" from 15 years ago or so?

https://www.youtube.com/v/i-NBM7yHtzg

[SymphonicAddict]

Quite true!

I came across this performance today: What say ye about the "Resurrection Piano Concerto" from 15 years ago or so?

https://www.youtube.com/v/i-NBM7yHtzg

I'm listening to it right now. I didn't recall how good it is! It reminds me of Shostakovich, especially at the beginning. As usual with this composer, the atmosphere is raw, serious, albeit all is more concentrated and there are no excessive cacophonies. I like that intensity it deploys and those motoric rhythms too.

To me, it's one of the best works of the 21st century.

[SymphonicAddict]

Just the concerto ended. Wow! It was much more impressive than expected! A powerful rediscovery. Those grandiloquent and uplifting climaxes were the perfect contrast for the overall mood of the work. I reaffirm it's a superlative work.

[relm1]

Just the concerto ended. Wow! It was much more impressive than expected! A powerful rediscovery. Those grandiloquent and uplifting climaxes were the perfect contrast for the overall mood of the work. I reaffirm it's a superlative work.

Agreed, I loved it immediately and found it more vigorous than some of his other contemporary works which was a good thing.

[Maestro267]

I'm a huge fan of Penderecki's Piano Concerto. I've had the Naxos recording of it for a number of years now and it's always a joy to listen to it. The video performance posted above made me learn about the extra brass instruments he deploys for the climactic statement of the chorale. The passage that follows that with gong strikes and pre-recorded tolling church bells is fantastic too!

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

I have that Naxos disc, but have never gotten to it. Should rectify that...