Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

Started by Maciek, April 12, 2007, 03:43:03 PM

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Symphonic Addict

Listening to the 6th Symphony now. Oh, just beautiful! The poetic blended with the exotic in a superb way. And it's quite different from many of his other works, this is subdued, delicate, atmospheric, nocturnal, even sensuous, though it's not devoid of certain agitation in a few passages. The addition of Chinese instrument(s) was a singular and effective stroke of genius, and so is the orchestration overall.

I'm very pleased to have heard this lovely piece.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Cato

Here is the opening movement: apparently each one is separate YouTube video.

https://www.youtube.com/v/cmIDXnOJTgg
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

greg

Just listened to the new Penderecki CD and the Symphony is pretty good. It's more of a song cycle, though... I kinda wonder if this wasn't originally intended to be a Symphony, but he just wanted to fill in the gap since he knew his health was declining.

Very dreamy, quite unlike what I know of his stuff though you do get moments of hints that it's him, especially the way he orchestrates.

The clarinet concerto is alright, a pretty typical work of his I guess.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

vandermolen

Ok then. I only really know the St Luke's Passion, which our Polish au pair gave to us when I was about 15 and I couldn't make sense of and the Christmas Symphony, which I had on LP and liked. In view of my liking for more 'traditional composers' what else should I be listening to?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: vandermolen on April 06, 2020, 08:09:51 AM
In view of my liking for more 'traditional composers' what else should I be listening to?

The Naxos chamber music disc should be your first stop:

formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

greg

Quote from: vandermolen on April 06, 2020, 08:09:51 AM
In view of my liking for more 'traditional composers' what else should I be listening to?
Tbh the 6th is the most 'traditional' work of his that I've heard, though there's probably more in that style...

also kinda hard to say since a lot of his music rides the line between experimental and traditional...
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

vandermolen

Quote from: Archaic Torso of Apollo on April 06, 2020, 08:24:03 AM
The Naxos chamber music disc should be your first stop:



Thank you very much and greg too. In due course I shall investigate these discs. Yesterday the BBC radio repeated an interesting interview with Penderecki made a few years ago.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vers la flamme

#447
Penderecki's music is starting to click a little bit with me: in the past few days I've really enjoyed the St. Luke Passion, the Third Symphony, and three early avant-garde pieces (the Threnody, Fluorescences, and De natura sonoris II) all on Naxos with Antoni Wit. I've also heard and enjoyed the Violin Concerto to Anne-Sophie Mutter in the past. I have it on CD but haven't broken it out in some time. I just ordered Symphony No.8, called "Lieder der Vergänglichkeit", and I'm curious about some of the other larger scale choral works like the Polish Requiem, the Credo, and Utrenja. The opera Devils of Loudun looks cool too, though I'm not sure whether or not it can be had on CD.

Anyone else listening to Penderecki lately? The St Luke Passion is very dark, but utterly beautiful.

relm1

I liked his opera, Paradise Lost.  The whole opera was on youtube and has lots of Polish Requiem vibe in it (dark and dramatic).

vers la flamme

#449
I just got this with the 8th symphony, the "Lieder der Vergänglichkeit":



... which sadly became Penderecki's last symphony after his death this year. Based off of a first listen I think it's brilliant. For a large-scale choral symphony like this it does seem to feel kind of low-key, ie. not really over the top like one might expect. These Antoni Wit/Warsaw Philharmonic recordings are excellent; I want them all.

Edit: I understand the 8th has been revised at least once since this recording came out. Would this happen to be the final version?...:


Maestro267

#450
I believe so, yes.

While Penderecki was alive, I was almost half-expecting his choral-orchestral song cycle "A Sea of Dreams Did Breathe On Me" to be declared his 9th Symphony, given how he's done that once or twice before, most notably with Seven Gates of Jerusalem, and given the song cycle's structure, with songs grouped into three large parts. Alas, it hasn't happened, but it was a theory of mine.

relm1

I really liked his No. 6 thinking it showed a new side of him I wasn't expecting.  Less dark and dramatic, more poetic and lyrical.  I also considered it his last symphony chronologically, is that not the case?  My teacher interviewed him not long ago and I asked her to ask about it and he said something about it's written in his head but hadn't written it down yet so I believed it came after No. 8.

Maestro267

Yeah, his symphonies are not numbered in the order they appeared in public. For instance, No. 3 was only completed in 1995, after the 4th (1989) and 5th (1992). And the aforementioned No. 7 (1996) was probably numbered that due to the title "Seven Gates of Jerusalem", the fact it has 7 movements, the recurrence of 7-note patterns, and so on.

bhodges

Just found this today: the 1969 film, directed by Rolf Liebermann for German television. Is there no end to what you can find on YouTube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zPEq48Sxg

--Bruce

Brahmsian

Quote from: Brewski on February 10, 2021, 07:44:08 AM
Just found this today: the 1969 film, directed by Rolf Liebermann for German television. Is there no end to what you can find on YouTube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zPEq48Sxg

--Bruce

Thanks for sharing this, Bruce. I have it saved to view later.

Brahmsian

Quote from: Brewski on February 10, 2021, 07:44:08 AM
Just found this today: the 1969 film, directed by Rolf Liebermann for German television. Is there no end to what you can find on YouTube?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zPEq48Sxg

--Bruce

Only about forty minutes in but I am finding the music terrifying but utterly compelling!

Mirror Image

#456
Quote from: Symphonic Addict on April 05, 2020, 04:59:12 PM
Listening to the 6th Symphony now. Oh, just beautiful! The poetic blended with the exotic in a superb way. And it's quite different from many of his other works, this is subdued, delicate, atmospheric, nocturnal, even sensuous, though it's not devoid of certain agitation in a few passages. The addition of Chinese instrument(s) was a singular and effective stroke of genius, and so is the orchestration overall.

I'm very pleased to have heard this lovely piece.

And I'm so thankful for not only the current recording of it, but the fact that Penderecki actually finished it. For years, we had an incomplete cycle --- is there a 6th? Will there be a 6th? I'm not sure if the composer himself was able to hear the recording that was made as it was released in 2019 (of course, he passed away in 2020), but he should be proud of this achievement. It is a gorgeous work and that Chinese instrument (an erhu, which I believe is one of the oldest instruments in the world, but don't quote me on this) lends an exotic, otherworldly color to the music. I just listened to this work for the first-time yesterday and couldn't believe my ears what I was hearing. It seems a hat-tip to Mahler, but, at the same time, the music is filtered through Penderecki's own prism. To say we lost a master last year, would be an understatement. I'm just relieved that his music has finally clicked with me. I'm completely onboard with both the early, avant-garde works and his turn to a more Neo-Romantic style. Honestly, it still sounds like him no matter the style its written in and this is a testament to his unique and unmistakable approach.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 24, 2021, 07:23:12 PM
And I'm so thankful for not only the current recording of it, but the fact that Penderecki actually finished it. For years, we had an incomplete cycle --- is there a 6th? Will there be a 6th? I'm not sure if the composer himself was able to hear the recording that was made as it was released in 2019 (of course, he passed away in 2020), but he should be proud of this achievement. It is a gorgeous work and that Chinese instrument (an erhu, which I believe is one of the oldest instruments in the world, but don't quote me on this) lends an exotic, otherworldly color to the music. I just listened to this work for the first-time yesterday and couldn't believe my ears what I was hearing. It seems a hat-tip to Mahler, but, at the same time, the music is filtered through Penderecki's own prism. To say we lost a master last year, would be an understatement. I'm just relieved that his music has finally clicked with me. I'm completely onboard with both the early, avant-garde works and his turn to a more Neo-Romantic style. Honestly, it still sounds like him no matter the style its written in and this is a testament to his unique and unmistakable approach.

Glad to see your enthusiasm about this magical piece. I concur with you, John. I think the wait for the delayed 6th Symphony paid dividends because it's really a unique work in Penderecki's output. I really hope he could hear this work before dying.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on August 24, 2021, 08:51:36 PM
Glad to see your enthusiasm about this magical piece. I concur with you, John. I think the wait for the delayed 6th Symphony paid dividends because it's really a unique work in Penderecki's output. I really hope he could hear this work before dying.

Indeed. Have you heard A sea of dreams did breathe on me...? I think you'll enjoy this work as well. There are two recordings of it. I haven't heard the one on Dux, but the Wit on Naxos is excellent.


Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 24, 2021, 08:56:53 PM
Indeed. Have you heard A sea of dreams did breathe on me...? I think you'll enjoy this work as well. There are two recordings of it. I haven't heard the one on Dux, but the Wit on Naxos is excellent.



Good, John. How is the music?
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky