Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

Started by Maciek, April 12, 2007, 03:43:03 PM

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MDL

#140
Some lovely person has posted on YouTube the last 20 minutes of so of The Devils of Loudun from a 1985 production by the Opera Royal de Wallonie

I'm gutted that this production ends at the same point in the score as the Philips/Hamburg CD/DVD recordings, shaving off a few minutes of Penderecki's choral coda. Is that the practice for all productions of The Devils?

I've not had time to study these clips in great detail for various reasons. But I'm astounded and delighted to see them on YouTube.



I'm trying to watch this, but the other half is giving me the evil eye, or at least the "what is that hideous din?" eye. Thankfully, the other half is going away for a few nights soon, so I'll be able to listen to what I want.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCEYzjAFPT8.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrzHMacvXIo




Maciek

A live performance of the Polish Requiem can be currently listened to at the France Musique site here (click headphones icon to the right to start). Available till Feb 20th, I believe.

karlhenning

Quote from: Maciek on March 30, 2009, 09:45:05 AM
For a multimedia version of Penderecki's Seven Gates of Jerusalem (a.k.a. Symphony no... 7?) go here (the Polish TV site). The film is in 5 parts, labeled "(cz. 1)", "(cz. 2)" etc. respectively. Click on the image or title of each video to start watching it. In Ubuntu this works best on Firefox with MediaPlayerConnectivity and a multimedia player of your choice (I've checked MPlayer, VLC, Totem xine and SMPlayer, Kaffeine seems to be having some trouble).

The conductor is Krzysztof Penderecki himself.

Opinions on the piece?  I see a Naxos recording, but . . . .

ibanezmonster

I had no idea Karajan conducted Penderecki!  :o :)

lescamil

Quote from: toucan on August 06, 2011, 05:42:17 AMThe only other CD recording of Polymorphia that I know of is Herbert Von Karajan

Antoni Wit and Henry Czyz also recorded Polymorphia. I personally prefer Antoni Wit's version the most. I hated his recording of the Threnody, though.
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Roberto

Quote from: James on May 15, 2011, 11:48:45 AM
There are some searing performances in this admirable 2-disc collection of Penderecki's orchestral pieces of the 1960s and early 1970s. Anaklasis, Eminationem and the Thernody are definite high points; the rest is mostly dense and anguished, including the Symphony No. 1 - the highwater mark of Penderecki's own brand of modernism.
Great collection! I have to mention that Penderecki is a conductor also. I have this CD with him and I like it:

I've wrote a review about it to Amazon.

Mirror Image

Time to revive this thread...

Bought a ton of Penderecki tonight:







Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: James on May 15, 2011, 11:48:45 AM
Penderecki maintains that he is a symphonist first and foremost.

If so, then I think he misjudged his own talent. He doesn't have the unerring sense of form (usually) to build convincing large-scale orchestral structures. Personally, I wish he would write more chamber music. That said, I enjoy symphonies 3 and 8, even if the latter is more an orchestral song cycle than a symphony.

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 08, 2011, 06:21:26 PM
Bought a ton of Penderecki tonight:

Some good discs there, like the above-mentioned symphonies, and the great St. Luke Passion. I don't see my favorite Naxos Penderecki disc, the one with the Sextet. Do you have it already?
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Velimir on August 08, 2011, 09:51:37 PMSome good discs there, like the above-mentioned symphonies, and the great St. Luke Passion. I don't see my favorite Naxos Penderecki disc, the one with the Sextet. Do you have it already?

No, I'm not interested in chamber music. In fact, it should noted that I seldom go for a composer's chamber music at all. It has to be of exceptional quality for me to even consider it. My favorite chamber music is by Bax, Ravel, Debussy, and Poulenc. I have very little patience for much else.

lescamil

Well, I'd say that the Sextet and the Violin Sonata No. 2 are of such exceptional quality that you should definitely check them out. I saw the Violin Sonata No. 2 performed years ago with Midori on violin, and I have not been moved as much as I was that night by a chamber work.
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Mirror Image

#150
Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 03:24:33 AM
High time indeed; it'd been been dead for the whole of 24hrs  :D
Penderecki may be way past the possibility of revival, however, what with his  having been dead for nearly four decades.

Perhaps he might enjoy a belated epiphany and realize a born-again composer is worth more than a born-again Christian 8)

During his brief spell as a talented musician (the 1960's basically) Penderecki had an ability to draw new sounds out of old instruments that surpassed Xenakis.
It is also fascinating the intelligence with which he worked his intention through a quasi-abstract language, as clearly as simple sentences in the English language (or any other language that may be native to the listener)

Since he lost his talent he became a pompous ass, self-importantly imitating his card-board image of the great masters of the past, little aware he is providing only a satire of himself.

I'm not sure if I can get onboard with a lot of your comments which to me seem more like rant than anything. Penderecki has said his reasons for abandoning his earlier avant-garde style and that reasoning is it was ultimately a dead-end street. The great thing is he's gained more listeners that support him in doing this. He's also divided many people that were following his earlier style, but Penderecki, as all great composers, divided the lines and continues to remain controversial.

DavidW

Cool purchases MI!  I love the 3rd symphony and the 4th!!!  I picked up the 8th from ebay this summer, but it's still in my to listen pile.  He is a great symphonist, I hope you enjoy his works.  btw the St Mark Passion, despite being one of his most famous works, I find to be hard listening.  The 2nd symphony is one of the easier works, it's a good place to get started.

Mirror Image

Quote from: DavidW on August 09, 2011, 08:47:05 AM
Cool purchases MI!  I love the 3rd symphony and the 4th!!!  I picked up the 8th from ebay this summer, but it's still in my to listen pile.  He is a great symphonist, I hope you enjoy his works.  btw the St Mark Passion, despite being one of his most famous works, I find to be hard listening.  The 2nd symphony is one of the easier works, it's a good place to get started.

Thanks, Dave. I'm anxious to hear Seven Gates of Jerusalem as I heard 15 minutes of it in a preview on Naxos Music Library. Do you mean St. Luke Passion? I'm also excited to hear his Polish Requiem which is a dark and turbulent work.

DavidW

Quote from: Mirror Image on August 09, 2011, 08:52:12 AM
Thanks, Dave. I'm anxious to hear Seven Gates of Jerusalem as I heard 15 minutes of it in a preview on Naxos Music Library. Do you mean St. Luke Passion? I'm also excited to hear his Polish Requiem which is a dark and turbulent work.

Oh woop sorry Luke not Mark! :D  Yeah his Polish Requiem is great. :)

Brahmsian

Just saying hello, as I want to be a part of this thread.  :D

I'll soon be delving into major Penderecki exploration.

Mirror Image

#155
Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 09:11:52 AM
Penderecki said lots of stupid things but he did not say his 1960's idiom was a dead end. He said he had drawn all that he could out of it. The truth is, his talent (in its original, creative phase) died out in the early seventies. Since then he has tried to keep up appearences through bad, ill-constructed, pompous and vulgar imitations of pre-modern masters.  Nor is the popularity of his later work much of an argument on his behalf as value in the Fine Arts (unlike Junk Food, Wal-mart items and democratic politics) is determined by an elite of people of taste, not by a general public that does not always distinguish clearly between Classical Music, easy listening - and Star Wars.

[ $:)] Penderecki may not have said verbatim that the avant-garde was a dead-end street, but he sure as hell hasn't bothered to return to that style has he? No, he had to find other avenues to express his music. He seems perfectly happy composing large-scale choral works right now and God bless him for it.

Here's what he said:

'The avant-garde gave one an illusion of universalism. The musical world of Stockhausen, Nono, Boulez and Cage was for us, the young - hemmed in by the aesthetics of socialist realism, then the official canon in our country - a liberation...I was quick to realise however, that this novelty, this experimentation and formal speculation, is more destructive than constructive; I realised the Utopian quality of its Promethean tone'.

He concluded that he was 'saved from the avant-garde snare of formalism by a return to tradition.'

Lethevich

Quote from: toucan on August 09, 2011, 09:48:46 AM
and also the masters of recent times - like Lutoslawski and Dutilleux and Messiaen and Boulez. Penderecki, Shostakovich and Arvo Part simply do not compare, no more than artificial diamonds compare with earth-generated diamonds.

If they were French would it help? ;)
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karlhenning


Archaic Torso of Apollo

#158
[ $:)]

One point which his posting does illustrate, is how people who like Penderecki Mark I often dislike Penderecki Mark II, and vice versa. Me, I like some of both of his iterations (and dislike some). I do have to admit though that what he was doing in his early period was more interesting and adventurous - an original voice. But I'm glad he didn't just stop composing when that voice started to run dry - there are at least a few of those later works I wouldn't want to be without.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

DavidW

I like the tonal Penderecki more than the avant garde Penderecki.  I think I agree with Toucan in just a little bit, just a little itty bit... he's no Lutoslawski.  Lutoslawski is a better composer... but... so what?  I don't enjoy composers based on ranking.