Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

[MDL]

This recent Polskie Nagrania release includes Fluorescences and Polymorphia

I assume these are reissues of the old (and very good) recordings from the '60s.

[Maciek]

I've never used their service (so don't blame me if I'm wrong, or it doesn't work, or you don't like the quality, or whatever), but it seems you can get the disc as a download here: http://www.polskienagrania.com.pl/offer/muzyka_powazna/penderecki._markowski._awangarda/.

[Maciek]

The Czepiel disc might be easier to get in its DUX incarnation: DUX 0475. (Unless of course these are two different recordings made by the same performers of the exact same repertoire - but something tells me that that is not the case. ) I haven't listened to it in ages, but I remember not being very fond of the Threnody recording (was it on the slow side, or am I misremembering?).

Actually, DUX has quite a few Penderecki discs in its catalog.

[snyprrr]

This recent Polskie Nagrania release includes Fluorescences and Polymorphia

On order!


I've been listening to the DoubleForte in anticipation, and realize that I probably haven't heard this stuff too actively until now. KP reminds me of the 'sounds' of, say, Xenakis, but, with a completely different way of putting the notes down in space. KP doesn't use IX's mathematical approach, and I feel KP (as was IX's criticism of the Polish School) perhaps sounds more...mm... well, since the 'science' isn't there, the only left to do is to hear the actual sounds, and how they are juxtaposed. Still, I find his treatments compelling. The cavalcade of sounds in the first movement of the Symphony still sound pretty groovy to these ears (cough, cough,... haha ).

The thing I like about this EMI, and I suppose also with 'Awangarda', is the vintage sound, so apt for music of such an incidentally creepy sound. I can't wait!

[snyprrr]

I think that's right. Penderecki had an ability to draw new sounds out of old instruments that equalled Xenakis, but made a freer, more spontaneous use of these sounds. What more. Penderecki's sounds (1960's sound that is) are earthy, nourishing even.

Yes, 'earthy' is a good word,... the grit in the strings.

[snyprrr]

I finally heard the 'Christmas' Symphony No.2, and, I must say, this is the Pettersson Symphony I wish he had written. But nevermind, I think this Music is perfect as it is.

As I had hoped, nothing is glaring, or really obvious, and it is a perfect example of Beautiful Anonymity. The famous musical quote is handled as well as I would have hoped, and, the mood itself is unique, I think: it's not depressing, but actually Triumphal, in a very very very subdued way. I listened to it on a bright and sunny day and it still sounded fine!

I got the OLYMPIA disc (which incredible music by Bruzdowicz), and, it's ok, but the samples I hear of Penderecki himself leading the same orchestra on EMI sound music scarier. That one sounds like the The One. I'm wondering if this recording I have is the same one on Polskie Nagriana, with the VC 1?

Anyhow, is it fair to say that this Symphony puts Schnittke to shame? I think it's a Masterpiece, frankly (whereas,  I don't know if I can call the VC 1 that).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I finally heard the 'Christmas' Symphony No.2, and, I must say, this is the Pettersson Symphony I wish he had written. But nevermind, I think this Music is perfect as it is.

Funny, I was not particularly impressed by this one. (But then, I don't like Pettersson either.) Personally I think the 3rd Symphony is a much stronger work - more variety and more fun.

[snyprrr]

This recent Polskie Nagrania release includes Fluorescences and Polymorphia

Just got this today. Oh, yummy yummy! this is fun. Flourescenes especially I liked, very groovy indeed! I'm going to sit down with this and the EMI when I can and absorb them better, but I do just really like (as in FB 'like') Penderecki's kind of elementary procedures yielding such stark sounds in places.

Dimensions in Time & Silence, also, was quite nice, with the voices really doing fun stuff.

This is bettern Hendrix man!

[snyprrr]

Yes it's a bit slow. Perhaps the slowness is a reason for the clarity - he doesn't let us miss a note.

When you say slow?,... I thought that KP on EMI would be definitive , at 9.54. So, I thought you meant slower than that. But now I see that Markowski is 5:50 !! Both sound great, but how 'slow' is that other one?

[MDL]

When you say slow?,... I thought that KP on EMI would be definitive , at 9.54. So, I thought you meant slower than that. But now I see that Markowski is 5:50 !! Both sound great, but how 'slow' is that other one?

5:50? Are you sure? All my Threnodys clock in at about 9+ minutes; Cziepel's is 9:21.

[North Star]

Penderecki's own recording of Threnody (EMI) is 10:03.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

If Penderecki's own recording proves hard to track down then this more recent one will prove a good alternative, not least because it uses very similar forces and Antoni Wit's interpretation is close in spirit to that of the composer, even though the acoustic is far less resonant. The one drawback is the absense [sic] of the text.

My copy has the text.

[snyprrr]

Complete with text in four languages; narration is in Latin but not sure the narrator is a native speaker, though:

Yummy!

I have been so groovin' to the EMI set and that 'Awangarda' disc. KP gets many extra points for the audacity of pure personality. I'm curious if Psalms of David was modeled after Stravinsky, what with the piano and percussion backdrop?

There is some clipping in some of the tuttis on that new disc. Bad mastering?

[snyprrr]

How would you all rate?:

St. Luke's Passion
Dies Irie(?)
Utrenya
Te Deum
Polish Requiem

It's a lot of listening, oy!

[snyprrr]

Complete with text in four languages; narration is in Latin but not sure the narrator is a native speaker, though:

I just got the GEMIni 2cd Penderecki with Sym. 2, Te Deum, and Magnificat. I like the latter work the best, and it is plenty atmospheric. What sounds like the Magnificat?

[snyprrr]

You can probably find answers there:

I've had the solo choral music before, but prefer to have the full orchestra. I'm left with:

St. Luke's Passion: I used to have the Argo disc, and I'm not sure why I sold it.

Dies Irae: I'll see if this is on YouTube.

Utrenya: This is probably the one to go for, no? Ormandy was lost on Ebay last week, so, PolskieNag?

Polish Requiem: I'm probably least interested in this one, though I did like the Lacrimosa on the EMI.


I guess that also leaves The Devils opera...(maybe later... muuuch...)

[lescamil]

The Devils of Loudun is a great opera, but it could really, really use another recording. There are some things that just seem rough around the edges in that old Markowski recording that I am sure a great modern Pendereckian conductor like Antoni Wit could bring out, particularly the more sparsely orchestrated arias. I also have the DVD of it, which is the exact same performance as the one on CD, I believe. It isn't a great production, but it at least puts some visuals to the work.

[MDL]

The Devils of Loudun is a great opera, but it could really, really use another recording. There are some things that just seem rough around the edges in that old Markowski recording that I am sure a great modern Pendereckian conductor like Antoni Wit could bring out, particularly the more sparsely orchestrated arias. I also have the DVD of it, which is the exact same performance as the one on CD, I believe. It isn't a great production, but it at least puts some visuals to the work.

Marek Janowski conducted the recording, not Markowski. And there are differences between the CD and DVD versions. For example, in the spoken scene (Grandier, De Cerisay, d'Armagnac) following Jeanne's enema, on the CD, Grandier's statement "with love comes hate" is followed by a dramatic high-pitched string cluster. On the DVD, the dialogue and orchestral backing are not synched up in the same way and the cluster is heard earlier, to much less effect. There are several other instances where I'm convinced that a different take has been used for the DVD; eg is Jeanne's vision of Grandier and Ninon slightly different in each version? Maybe it's down to different edits rather than different performances. The slightly peculiar acoustic is identical in the CD and DVD.

But you're right; we desperately need a new recording of The Devils, one that restores the choral coda cut from the end of this recording (why?) and includes the new scenes Penderecki added a few years later.

And regarding the performance on DVD; it might not have been effective on stage, but as a film, I think it is grimly, grubbily effective. And I don't think anyone will be able to top Troyanos's stunning vocal performance.

[lescamil]

Ah, Marek Janowski. Sometimes I confuse the names of these Penderecki conductors, especially the Polish ones ending in -ski. Also, yes, I noticed that the coda was cut from the end of the DVD, which I was sorely disappointed in when I saw it.

[snyprrr]

I was pleased to find this piece, Kanon, on the GEMIeni set. At first I thought it was a later choral piece, then what?, then I saw that it was another orchestral piece. And what a piece it is! The antiphonal effects (left/right) totally caught me off guard, to the point that I thought my speaker had blown in the car,... and I got that funny feeling like when you lose hearing... ...anyhow,... Kanon is a great piece in my estimation. No other recording?