Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

Started by Maciek, April 12, 2007, 03:43:03 PM

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snyprrr

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 20, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
Spent a few hours last night on Spotify listening to various Penderecki pieces (symphonies, concerto, Requiem...) almost all for the first time, and I could easily sense the beginning of a new obsession  ;D, to be continued...

Tag... you're it!!

Brahmsian

Just finished my first listen to the St. Luke Passion.

Immediately one of my favourite Penderecki works!  Wow, magnificent!!

Courtesy of MI (John).  Hat tip!  :)



Cato

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 03, 2013, 04:17:01 PM
Just finished my first listen to the St. Luke Passion.

Immediately one of my favourite Penderecki works!  Wow, magnificent!!

Courtesy of MI (John).  Hat tip!  :)

Now you can graduate to Utrenja!

[asin]B001U1L9UI[/asin]
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Brahmsian

Quote from: Cato on October 03, 2013, 04:43:18 PM
Now you can graduate to Utrenja!

[asin]B001U1L9UI[/asin]

Not necessary, I have that disc and have listened to it!  Very much enjoyed it.  :)

I guess I took the "post graduate" course first.  8)

Karl Henning

As a result of Ray's post here, I've sampled the St Luke's Passion, and like what I hear.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Brahmsian


Brahmsian

Quote from: karlhenning on October 04, 2013, 08:56:07 AM
As a result of Ray's post here, I've sampled the St Luke's Passion, and like what I hear.

Oh, btw Karl, which performance was it that you just listened to?  :)

Karl Henning

The samples from that Wit & al. CD.  I can see that Cato's Utrenja rec (that only seems to sound like "train wreck") will be another item to investigate.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

TheGSMoeller

WARNING: Do not listen to Polymorphia with the lights off...wait, DO listen to Polymorphia with the lights off to get the best effect. Oh, and wear headphones.  >:D  ;D

I love how Polymorphia's ending is the opposite kind of raspberry as Ives' 2nd Symphony.  ;)

Brahmsian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 05, 2013, 03:51:41 PM
WARNING: Do not listen to Polymorphia with the lights off...wait, DO listen to Polymorphia with the lights off to get the best effect. Oh, and wear headphones.  >:D  ;D



That's exactly what I was thinking, Greg!  ;D

I was going to suggest, try turning off all the lights.....I bet you'll be turning them back on!   :laugh:

Mirror Image

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 20, 2013, 07:51:31 AM
Spent a few hours last night on Spotify listening to various Penderecki pieces (symphonies, concerto, Requiem...) almost all for the first time, and I could easily sense the beginning of a new obsession  ;D, to be continued...

Have you explored any more Penderecki since this post, Greg? I've been reconsidering his music at the moment. (Don't worry Ray I don't want the Wit CDs back :P)

DavidW

Back last fall I picked up the symphony box... well this naxos sale on arkiv I picked up a bunch of concerto cds.  I'm excited to give them a listen!

Mirror Image

Quote from: DavidW on March 10, 2014, 06:49:44 PM
Back last fall I picked up the symphony box... well this naxos sale on arkiv I picked up a bunch of concerto cds.  I'm excited to give them a listen!

Right now, all I own are the Dux recordings which all sound quite good to my ears and have the composer himself conducting on most of them. I can't say I'm completely blown away by the symphonies as they seem to have a sameness to them as does the larger choral works. His sound-world is stark and not as colorful as I like but certainly there's a lot more to him than this acerbic style of his? I keep reading over and over he's one of Poland's most important composers and while I don't doubt his importance, his music has remained, for me, a jagged pill that's hard to swallow.

DavidW

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 06:55:20 PM
Right now, all I own are the Dux recordings which all sound quite good to my ears and have the composer himself conducting on most of them. I can't say I'm completely blown away by the symphonies as they seem to have a sameness to them as does the larger choral works. His sound-world is stark and not as colorful as I like but certainly there's a lot more to him than this acerbic style of his? I keep reading over and over he's one of Poland's most important composers and while I don't doubt his importance, his music has remained, for me, a jagged pill that's hard to swallow.

He builds on the same motif in most of his symphonies.  It never bothered me because of the tone and way that it's orchestrated is transformed each time.  But if it bothers you try his chamber music instead.

Mirror Image

#294
Quote from: DavidW on March 10, 2014, 07:04:27 PM
He builds on the same motif in most of his symphonies.  It never bothered me because of the tone and way that it's orchestrated is transformed each time.  But if it bothers you try his chamber music instead.

He builds on the same motif in most of his symphonies? Now, granted, I'm not an expert on Penderecki nor do I know too much about his music, but what I've heard of his later works just sound like they were cut from the same cloth and there seems to be a lack of variety in the music that turns me off a bit. I doubt the chamber music would change my opinion considering that his orchestral/choral music takes up so much of his oeuvre. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about the music instead of letting it speak to me? Who knows at this point.

DavidW

The motif I talked about I first heard and is usually attributed to the third symphony.  I've heard it in all but the first two symphonies.  It appears twice in the seventh.  Listen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL6i7VXDWQ

He also incorporates Jewish motifs and the famous B-A-C-H motif which you can listen to here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leTVRE_-8Z0

That superficially gives a sameness to alot of his orchestral music, but it is in the harmony and color that make each orchestral work of his stand out as unique.

Mirror Image

Quote from: DavidW on March 10, 2014, 07:26:20 PM
The motif I talked about I first heard and is usually attributed to the third symphony.  I've heard it in all but the first two symphonies.  It appears twice in the seventh.  Listen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqL6i7VXDWQ

He also incorporates Jewish motifs and the famous B-A-C-H motif which you can listen to here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leTVRE_-8Z0

That superficially gives a sameness to alot of his orchestral music, but it is in the harmony and color that make each orchestral work of his stand out as unique.

Ah yes, I've heard that Passacaglia before from his Symphony No. 3. It's pretty cool sounding but what I'm finding is that there's also a lack of memorability for me in his music. Time to dig out those Dux recordings I suppose and give some of them a spin.

Mirror Image

Maybe I should just stick with Szymanowski, Lutoslawski, and Bacewicz. :)

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 10, 2014, 07:12:44 PM
I doubt the chamber music would change my opinion considering that his orchestral/choral music takes up so much of his oeuvre.

IMHO, he's mistaken his own talent a bit. He is better in smaller forms than large ones, yet unfortunately he insists on writing bombastic orchestral/choral extravaganzas. I do think his chamber music, and what I've heard of his a cappella choral music, is much better.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

Mirror Image

Quote from: Velimir on March 10, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
IMHO, he's mistaken his own talent a bit. He is better in smaller forms than large ones, yet unfortunately he insists on writing bombastic orchestral/choral extravaganzas. I do think his chamber music, and what I've heard of his a cappella choral music, is much better.

Maybe it's just his musical language in general that I don't respond to? His other countrymen, like Lutoslawski and Panufnik for example, were much more colorful in their orchestration. Penderecki, by comparison, sounds cluttered and stuffy, but it also doesn't help when you don't have much to say musically, which I don't think Penderecki does.

Anyway, I know, I know nobody is telling me or trying to force me to like his music, I'm just trying to figure out why he's so popular amongst listeners.