Krzysztof Penderecki (1933-2020)

Started by Maciek, April 12, 2007, 03:43:03 PM

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Ken B

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 08:59:19 PM
What do you think about Penderecki, Ken?
I like quite a lot but agree he is better small and controlled. I like the sextet a lot. The concertos are generally good.  When I try though I don't have strong memories like I do with some composers, like Shosty, or to mention some you should look into, Beethoven, Schubert, or Dvorak. I suspect he is not a Brahms but a Raff, a figure of his time but not beyond it.

There are not many pieces of the past 50 years I am confident will be in the repertoire in another 50. Most music doesn't make it. I don't follow modern symphonism closely, but I can only think of two I'd put money on, and even then I might want odds.  ;)

Mirror Image

Quote from: Ken B on March 11, 2014, 09:24:53 PM
I like quite a lot but agree he is better small and controlled. I like the sextet a lot. The concertos are generally good.  When I try though I don't have strong memories like I do with some composers, like Shosty, or to mention some you should look into, Beethoven, Schubert, or Dvorak. I suspect he is not a Brahms but a Raff, a figure of his time but not beyond it.

There are not many pieces of the past 50 years I am confident will be in the repertoire in another 50. Most music doesn't make it. I don't follow modern symphonism closely, but I can only think of two I'd put money on, and even then I might want odds.  ;)

I like Beethoven and love Dvorak, but don't care for Schubert. I love Brahms, too. I don't think I'll be listening to any Penderecki for a long time and even then it probably wouldn't be long enough. :)

Anyway, since I'm not a fan of his music, I really shouldn't be on this thread. Good night all.

not edward

Quote from: Velimir on March 10, 2014, 08:13:14 PM
IMHO, he's mistaken his own talent a bit. He is better in smaller forms than large ones, yet unfortunately he insists on writing bombastic orchestral/choral extravaganzas. I do think his chamber music, and what I've heard of his a cappella choral music, is much better.
Totally agreed. The string trio, third quartet, clarinet quartet and sextet all hang together a lot better than the orchestral works (though I think the second violin sonata suffers from the same flabby structures that compromise his orchestral work). Similarly, I'd regard the 3rd and 8th as the most successful of the symphonies, probably because their multi-movement design forces tauter structure.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

Karl Henning

Thank you both, most interesting.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: edward on March 12, 2014, 08:31:52 AM
Similarly, I'd regard the 3rd and 8th as the most successful of the symphonies, probably because their multi-movement design forces tauter structure.

And I agree with that, too. Furthermore, I mentioned briefly a cappella choral music; this disc (Tapiola Chamber Choir) is eminently recommendable:

formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

ibanezmonster

Quote from: edward on March 12, 2014, 08:31:52 AM
Totally agreed. The string trio, third quartet, clarinet quartet and sextet all hang together a lot better than the orchestral works (though I think the second violin sonata suffers from the same flabby structures that compromise his orchestral work). Similarly, I'd regard the 3rd and 8th as the most successful of the symphonies, probably because their multi-movement design forces tauter structure.
I believe I've felt the same way, though it's been so long since I've listened to a Penderecki symphony that I couldn't really comment any further.

DavidW

Quote from: Velimir on March 11, 2014, 08:05:41 PM
Not yet, but you reminded me that I have the piece and haven't listened to it, on a Naxos CD with the rather nice so-called 8th Symphony. I'll try to listen to it soon.

That is how I have it too.

DavidW

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2014, 08:40:05 PM
Isn't this from his Polish Requiem?

Since you shared the youtube link I can tell you by listening that they are two different works. 

Ken B

Quote from: DavidW on March 13, 2014, 06:03:08 PM
Since you shared the youtube link I can tell you by listening that they are two different works.
I assume you mean the Auschwitz Dies Irae, a memorial piece.

DavidW

Quote from: Ken B on March 13, 2014, 06:17:00 PM
I assume you mean the Auschwitz Dies Irae, a memorial piece.

I didn't know that, but now that I looked it up yes it's also called the Auschwitz Oratorio and it dates from 1967, coming from his more avant garde phase.

Maciek

Sorry if this annoys those who read all three threads, but here I go cross-posting...

NInA's Three composers site

http://threecomposers.pl/

has a selection of recordings to listen to on-line (hover over the name "Penderecki" and select "music" to get to the list).

snyprrr

Symphony No.3

I think this is one of the very best of KP's transitional pieces. The Violin Concerto No.1 is a beast, but this one is a little more cohesive. I really liked the 'Christmas' Symphony and was struggling to find something similar; No.3 is it! That, and the Cello Concerto No.2, I think, are the high points of this phase. What do you think? (Viola Concerto, too, I liked just a little bit)

Archaic Torso of Apollo

Quote from: snyprrr on April 14, 2014, 07:20:43 AM
Symphony No.3

I think this is one of the very best of KP's transitional pieces.

I agree with you, even though the work seems to be cobbled together haphazardly. The nocturnal adagio and sizzling scherzo-finale are the highlights.
formerly VELIMIR (before that, Spitvalve)

"Who knows not strict counterpoint, lives and dies an ignoramus" - CPE Bach

snyprrr

Quote from: Velimir on April 15, 2014, 11:07:42 AM
I agree with you, even though the work seems to be cobbled together haphazardly. The nocturnal adagio and sizzling scherzo-finale are the highlights.

ok

Penderecki 3 vs. Schnittke 3

Who wins?

DavidW

Quote from: snyprrr on April 15, 2014, 04:36:08 PM
ok

Penderecki 3 vs. Schnittke 3

Who wins?

Penderecki, but he loses to Lutoslawski 3. 8)

snyprrr


snyprrr

Symphony 4 'Adagio'...???

Symphony 5...???

Symphony 6...???

Symphony 7... '7 Gates'

Symphony 8...???

Who's writing more, him or Glass? ugh...

snyprrr

I need to get to the bottom of this. I'd like to get the Orfeo, which has the two pieces I want, but, at this point, with so many options, I really just want to know what you all think here, especially if you actually have some of the rarer recordings, oy!

Cello Concerto No.2

Zhislin(?)/ Naxos
Rostropovich/ Erato
Noras/ Finlandia-Apex
Monighetti/ Polski Nigr.
Pergamenschow/ Orfeo


Violin Concerto No.1

Stern/ SONY
XXX/ Naxos
Edinger/ Thorofon
Edinger/ Orfeo
XXX/ Channel Classics
XXX/ Polski Nigr.
XXX/ ???

The Channel Classics has a great review which says it's in another class than the rest (so is the price!). I guess- I just don't know who the sound varies here. Stern's expensive again.

Also, a reviewer thought the Naxos CC2 was in a class with the Slava. So, what do you think? (and, we all know this is dreary going, so, I'm not commenting on the music!!) ha

ibanezmonster

Quote from: snyprrr on April 15, 2014, 04:36:08 PM
ok

Penderecki 3 vs. Schnittke 3

Who wins?
As much as I like Penderecki, Schnittke wins this one.

DavidW

Quote from: Greg on April 17, 2014, 10:10:00 AM
As much as I like Penderecki, Schnittke wins this one.

The correct answer is "I win!" ;D