Author Topic: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi  (Read 4165 times)

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Offline (: premont :)

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Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« on: March 15, 2015, 11:47:52 AM »
Frescobaldis Canzoni per sonare con ogni sorte di Stromenti is a collection of rather short pieces of music for one, two, three or four soloists and continuo. The designation for soloists are of two kinds, either Canto (violin, recorder or cornetto e.g) or Basso (viola da gamba, dulcian or trombone e.g.) and different combinations of Canto (Canti) and Basso (Bassi) are used. The pieces are made up of a number of sections (usually about five) with rapidly changing character, recitatives alternating with sections in imitative style. The interpretative style should be rather declamatory, and maybe we find in these canzoni one of the musical forerunners to the North German Stylus Phantasticus.

I know two recordings of the complete collection, both Italian.

Ensemble ConSerto Musico led by Roberto Lorregian (Brilliant Classics  2CD)
This ensemble uses period instruments in a variety of scorings for flauto traverso, cornetto, violin, cello, viola da gamba, dulcian, lute, harpsichord and organ. The choice of instruments IMO is not always ideal, as when a canzona for four soloists and continuo is arranged for harpsichord solo and continuo bass violin, or another canzona for four soloists and continuo is arranged for cornetto, violin, cello and lute with organ contino. Also I think a recorder would be a more natural choice than a flauto traverso. The wind soloists are very fine, but the string soloists sound a bit restrained and anonymous and do not play sufficiently eloquent (to quote Gordo). It feels as if they just learned the pieces for the recording. 

Il Viaggio Musicale (Bongiovanni  2CD)
This ensemble also uses period instruments (violin, cello, viola da gamba, dulcian, trombone, lute, organ and harpsichord). The arrangements are much more convincing and the playing more eloquent and declamatory. Actually I enjoyed this recording very much.

Other than these there are a number of recordings on one CD, containing approximately half of the collection, usually the most interesting half of it. All these use period instruments.

Musica Fiata led by Roland Wilson German group (DHM).
Uses violin, cornetto, dulcian, trombone, organ and chitarrone. The recording is dedicated to Bernhard Junghänel, who contributes splendidly on dulcian, but died nine month later, aged 45. The playing is exciting, declamatory and opulent. This is the most convincing recording of these pieces, I know.

Il Teatro alla Moda led by Bruno Ré , a French group (Pierre Verany).
Using  violin, gamba, theorbe, organ and harpsichord. Two violins participate, but only one violinist is credited: Marco Fois. Like the other French recording – see below – very sonorous and played with subdued tension. While the Italian groups do not build up any tension as they release it at once, the French groups build up some tension in the course of each piece, making the music more weighty.

Les Basses Renunies led by Bruno Cocset, French Group (Alpha)
using deep strings, cornetto, lute, organ and harpsichord. Dark, silky sound, and playing style, which would suit music by classical French gamba-composers perfectly, but it also adds something of interest to Frescobaldi, even if is not fully idiomatic.

Ensemble Hypothesis led by Leopoldo d´Agostino, an Italian group (Tactus)
using recorder, gamba, organ, spinettina and lute. Arrangements are rather kaleidoscopic, parts often changing instrumentation in the course of a piece. Feels a bit confusing. Even here I would like a bit more eloquence in the playing.

Tripla Concordia with Kees Boeke on gamba, Italian group (Nuova Era)
played on recorders, gamba, cello, harpsichord and organ. Very straightforward playing. The two recorders are rather dominating and become tiring for the ear at a certain point, but it is of course possible to listen to the CD in halfes.

Kees Boeke (recorder), Wouter Möller (cello), Bob van Asperen (harpsichord and organ positive) Dutch group (EMI Reflexe)
I haven´t listened much to this so far, but my first impression was favorable (without specification).


Conclusion:
Of the complete sets I prefer Il Viaggio Musicale, and of the incomplete sets I prefer Musica Fiata, but particularly the two French sets are worth a listen. I have not included recordings with four or less canzoni.

Edit:
The recording by the Ensemble Fitzwilliam is French (Astrée), and has got kind of the weight and dark hue of the other French recordings (particularly Les Basses Réunies and less obvious Teatro alla Moda), and even if recorders are prominent, they are rarely shrill as in the Tripla Concordia recording. And it certainly doesn't hurt, that Michèle Dévérité is a member of the group and plays some harpsichord solo pieces by Frescobaldi. Her playing here  is - like in her Trabaci recordings - tense and expressive.

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B000025U9Q/ref=sr_1_1_twi_aud_1_olp/278-0945156-7403207?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1441816912&sr=1-1&keywords=Girolamo+Frescobaldi+Canzoni+%26+Partite+%28Ensemble+Fitzwilliam%29

Revisiting the Boeke/Möller/Asperen recording once more again turned out disappointing. Neither Boeke nor Möller have got the grasp on this music.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2016, 08:12:53 AM by (: premont :) »
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2015, 01:19:41 PM »
Of course I forgot one recording, a selection on Astrée by Ensemble Fitzwilliam (French). I shall do a short report on this and the Reflexe release in a few days.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2015, 09:49:26 PM »
Frescobaldis Canzoni per sonare con ogni sorte di Stromenti is a collection of rather short pieces of music for one, two, three or four soloists and continuo. The designation for soloists are of two kinds, either Canto (violin, recorder or cornetto e.g) or Basso (viola da gamba, dulcian or trombone e.g.) and different combinations of Canto (Canti) and Basso (Bassi) are used. The pieces are made up of a number of sections (usually about five) with rapidly changing character, recitatives alternating with sections in imitative style. The interpretative style should be rather declamatory, and maybe we find in these canzoni one of the musical forerunners to the North German Stylus Phantasticus.

I know two recordings of the complete collection, both Italian.

Ensemble ConSerto Musico led by Roberto Lorregian (Brilliant Classics  2CD)
This ensemble uses period instruments in a variety of scorings for flauto traverso, cornetto, violin, cello, viola da gamba, dulcian, lute, harpsichord and organ. The choice of instruments IMO is not always ideal, as when a canzona for four soloists and continuo is arranged for harpsichord solo and continuo bass violin, or another canzona for four soloists and continuo is arranged for cornetto, violin, cello and lute with organ contino. Also I think a recorder would be a more natural choice than a flauto traverso. The wind soloists are very fine, but the string soloists sound a bit restrained and anonymous and do not play sufficiently eloquent (to quote Gordo). It feels as if they just learned the pieces for the recording. 

Il Viaggio Musicale (Bongiovanni  2CD)
This ensemble also uses period instruments (violin, cello, viola da gamba, dulcian, trombone, lute, organ and harpsichord). The arrangements are much more convincing and the playing more eloquent and declamatory. Actually I enjoyed this recording very much.

Other than these there are a number of recordings on one CD, containing approximately half of the collection, usually the most interesting half of it. All these use period instruments.

Musica Fiata led by Roland Wilson German group (DHM).
Uses violin, cornetto, dulcian, trombone, organ and chitarrone. The recording is dedicated to Bernhard Junghänel, who contributes splendidly on dulcian, but died nine month later, aged 45. The playing is exciting, declamatory and opulent. This is the most convincing recording of these pieces, I know.

Il Teatro alla Moda led by Bruno Ré , a French group (Pierre Verany).
Using  violin, gamba, theorbe, organ and harpsichord. Two violins participate, but only one violinist is credited: Marco Fois. Like the other French recording – see below – very sonorous and played with subdued tension. While the Italian groups do not build up any tension as they release it at once, the French groups build up some tension in the course of each piece, making the music more weighty.

Les Basses Renunies led by Bruno Cocset, French Group (Alpha)
using deep strings, cornetto, lute, organ and harpsichord. Dark, silky sound, and playing style, which would suit music by classical French gamba-composers perfectly, but it also adds something of interest to Frescobaldi, even if is not fully idiomatic.

Ensemble Hypothesis led by Leopoldo d´Agostino, an Italian group (Tactus)
using recorder, gamba, organ, spinettina and lute. Arrangements are rather kaleidoscopic, parts often changing instrumentation in the course of a piece. Feels a bit confusing. Even here I would like a bit more eloquence in the playing.

Tripla Concordia with Kees Boeke on gamba, Italian group (Nuova Era)
played on recorders, gamba, cello, harpsichord and organ. Very straightforward playing. The two recorders are rather dominating and become tiring for the ear at a certain point, but it is of course possible to listen to the CD in halfes.

Kees Boeke (recorder), Wouter Möller (cello), Bob van Asperen (harpsichord and organ positive) Dutch group (EMI Reflexe)
I haven´t listened much to this so far, but my first impression was favorable (without specification).


Conclusion:
Of the complete sets I prefer Il Viaggio Musicale, and of the incomplete sets I prefer Musica Fiata, but particularly the two French sets are worth a listen. I have not included recordings with four or less canzoni.

That's fabulous, thank you. And it's especially good because some of these are on spotify and I'd already picked out Viaggio Musicale and Musica Fiata as special. I like Ensemble Hypothesis a bit more than you, partly because it's backward looking, it seems to make the canzonas sound like renaissance music. And I was wondering whether to buy Tripla Concordia, and you've put me off, so you've saved me a bit of dosh.

The canzonas are strange because, to me, they just don't sound anything like Frescobaldi's keyboard music.
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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 02:31:48 PM »
I don't know how relevant this is, but there's an old recording of Frescobaldi canzone with E. Power Biggs and the Boston Brass Ensemble. Modern instruments, as far as I know. Mine is coupled with the famous but very un-HIP Gabrieli disc done by brass sections of 3 famous American orchestras.
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Offline XB-70 Valkyrie

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 04:32:14 PM »
Interesting. I would also be interested in recommendations for his organ music.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 10:04:58 PM »
I don't know how relevant this is, but there's an old recording of Frescobaldi canzone with E. Power Biggs and the Boston Brass Ensemble. Modern instruments, as far as I know. Mine is coupled with the famous but very un-HIP Gabrieli disc done by brass sections of 3 famous American orchestras.

He wrote two types of canzoni. Canzoni di Sonare, which are for small ensembles. And Canzoni alla francese, which are often played on a single instrument - harp, lute or keyboard. I know that Power Biggs recorded some of the latter, but I haven't heard it.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 10:20:42 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 10:07:07 PM »
Interesting. I would also be interested in recommendations for his organ music.

I've discussed this recently here. Everyone seems to like the Frescobaldi CD by Andrea Marcon. And I love the organ parts of Sergio Vartolo's recording of Book 2 of the toccatas.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 10:20:18 PM by Mandryka »
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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2015, 10:11:05 AM »
He wrote two types of canzoni. Canzoni di Sonare, which are for small ensembles. And Canzoni alla francese, which are often played on a single instrument - harp, lute or keyboard. I know that Power Biggs recorded some of the latter, but I haven't heard it.

These are not labeled as Canzoni di Sonare on the recording, but they appear to be, as Biggs is accompanied by a brass ensemble on some of them.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2015, 10:55:53 AM »
These are not labeled as Canzoni di Sonare on the recording, but they appear to be, as Biggs is accompanied by a brass ensemble on some of them.

Yes, I was wrong, I just listened to one of them, which was tagged on spotify Canzon quinta . This is a canzona di sonare as you say, played with unbelievable swagger!!!
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2015, 11:32:10 AM »
Frescobaldis Canzoni per sonare con ogni sorte di Stromenti is a collection of rather short pieces of music for one, two, three or four soloists and continuo. The designation for soloists are of two kinds, either Canto (violin, recorder or cornetto e.g) or Basso (viola da gamba, dulcian or trombone e.g.) and different combinations of Canto (Canti) and Basso (Bassi) are used. The pieces are made up of a number of sections (usually about five) with rapidly changing character, recitatives alternating with sections in imitative style. The interpretative style should be rather declamatory, and maybe we find in these canzoni one of the musical forerunners to the North German Stylus Phantasticus.

I know two recordings of the complete collection, both Italian.

Ensemble ConSerto Musico led by Roberto Lorregian (Brilliant Classics  2CD)
This ensemble uses period instruments in a variety of scorings for flauto traverso, cornetto, violin, cello, viola da gamba, dulcian, lute, harpsichord and organ. The choice of instruments IMO is not always ideal, as when a canzona for four soloists and continuo is arranged for harpsichord solo and continuo bass violin, or another canzona for four soloists and continuo is arranged for cornetto, violin, cello and lute with organ contino. Also I think a recorder would be a more natural choice than a flauto traverso. The wind soloists are very fine, but the string soloists sound a bit restrained and anonymous and do not play sufficiently eloquent (to quote Gordo). It feels as if they just learned the pieces for the recording. 

Il Viaggio Musicale (Bongiovanni  2CD)
This ensemble also uses period instruments (violin, cello, viola da gamba, dulcian, trombone, lute, organ and harpsichord). The arrangements are much more convincing and the playing more eloquent and declamatory. Actually I enjoyed this recording very much.

Other than these there are a number of recordings on one CD, containing approximately half of the collection, usually the most interesting half of it. All these use period instruments.

Musica Fiata led by Roland Wilson German group (DHM).
Uses violin, cornetto, dulcian, trombone, organ and chitarrone. The recording is dedicated to Bernhard Junghänel, who contributes splendidly on dulcian, but died nine month later, aged 45. The playing is exciting, declamatory and opulent. This is the most convincing recording of these pieces, I know.

Il Teatro alla Moda led by Bruno Ré , a French group (Pierre Verany).
Using  violin, gamba, theorbe, organ and harpsichord. Two violins participate, but only one violinist is credited: Marco Fois. Like the other French recording – see below – very sonorous and played with subdued tension. While the Italian groups do not build up any tension as they release it at once, the French groups build up some tension in the course of each piece, making the music more weighty.

Les Basses Renunies led by Bruno Cocset, French Group (Alpha)
using deep strings, cornetto, lute, organ and harpsichord. Dark, silky sound, and playing style, which would suit music by classical French gamba-composers perfectly, but it also adds something of interest to Frescobaldi, even if is not fully idiomatic.

Ensemble Hypothesis led by Leopoldo d´Agostino, an Italian group (Tactus)
using recorder, gamba, organ, spinettina and lute. Arrangements are rather kaleidoscopic, parts often changing instrumentation in the course of a piece. Feels a bit confusing. Even here I would like a bit more eloquence in the playing.

Tripla Concordia with Kees Boeke on gamba, Italian group (Nuova Era)
played on recorders, gamba, cello, harpsichord and organ. Very straightforward playing. The two recorders are rather dominating and become tiring for the ear at a certain point, but it is of course possible to listen to the CD in halfes.

Kees Boeke (recorder), Wouter Möller (cello), Bob van Asperen (harpsichord and organ positive) Dutch group (EMI Reflexe)
I haven´t listened much to this so far, but my first impression was favorable (without specification).


Conclusion:
Of the complete sets I prefer Il Viaggio Musicale, and of the incomplete sets I prefer Musica Fiata, but particularly the two French sets are worth a listen. I have not included recordings with four or less canzoni.

I have listened to most of many of these recordings now. I've not had the chance you hear Boeke/Möller/Asperen or Tripla  Concordia yet. I largely agree with you about Basses Réunies and I thoroughly enjoy Viaggio Musicale. I find the opulence of Musica Fiata a bit not me, not my style. And I don't care for their brass dominated sound, and I miss a harpsichord continuo.

I have a clear favourite at the moment, and that's Teatro alla Moda, who make a lovely noise IMO,  they seem very aware of each other, their sound is transparent which does justice to the wonderful counterpoint in their selection, and their voicing is elegant and imaginative.

I much appreciated the point you make about how the the French and Italian ensembles treat tension differently. I'd go further, I'd say it's a weakness of the Italian style, which gives me the impression of finding less emotional variety in the music.

There's something about Ensemble Hypthesis which I find intriguing: to me they seem to take the music back in time, rather than forward to the baroque. That's just a superficial impression, but I'm curious about that "one foot in the past" approach to Frescobaldi, who is, after all, a transitional figure. Their recorder heavy sound gets on my nerves a bit, but I intend to revisit them in the future.

Anyway thanks again for doing this discography, which was very stimulating.



PS. One little discovery I made are a handful of very noble canzoni da sonare played on organ by Réné Saorgin.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 11:39:43 AM by Mandryka »
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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2015, 08:01:37 AM »
Of course I forgot one recording, a selection on Astrée by Ensemble Fitzwilliam (French). I shall do a short report on this and the Reflexe release in a few days.

Thanks for your kind words Mandryka. Good to know that your Frescobaldi journey proved revarding.

The recording by the Ensemble Fitzwilliam is French (Astrée), and has got kind of the weight and dark hue of the other French recordings (particularly Les Basses Réunies and less obvious Teatro alla Moda), and even if recorders are prominent, they are rarely shrill as in the Tripla Concordia recording. And it certainly doesn't hurt, that Michèle Dévérité is a member of the group and plays some harpsichord solo pieces by Frescobaldi. Her playing here  is - like in her Trabaci recordings - tense and expressive.

http://www.amazon.fr/gp/offer-listing/B000025U9Q/ref=sr_1_1_twi_aud_1_olp/278-0945156-7403207?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1441816912&sr=1-1&keywords=Girolamo+Frescobaldi+Canzoni+%26+Partite+%28Ensemble+Fitzwilliam%29

Revisiting the Boeke/Möller/Asperen recording once more again turned out disappointing. Neither Boeke nor Möller have got the grasp on this music.



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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 07:02:24 AM »
PS. One little discovery I made are a handful of very noble canzoni da sonare played on organ by Réné Saorgin.

I have never heard of organ arrangements of the Canzoni da sonare con ogni sorte di Stromenti. On the other hand I own a recording by Saorgin (Harmonia Mundi) playing a half dozen Canzoni, but these are original organ (keyboard-) works.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2015, 10:16:32 AM »
The first three tracks on my CD are three canzoni -- are these not canzoni da sonare? The second made me think of the canzon de sonare "la Bernadinia", for example. In addition there are five canzoni Francesi.

I am, by the way, starting to enjoy Loreggian's Missa Apostolorum (A Gabrieli), partly because of the nice acid Italian organ.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 10:22:13 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2017, 08:35:59 PM »

Revisiting the Boeke/Möller/Asperen recording once more again turned out disappointing. Neither Boeke nor Möller have got the grasp on this music.

I think that you're being very harsh here. Though I don't like myself the way the sound is so dominated by the recorder, it's certainly not a favourite of mine.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 08:46:32 PM by Mandryka »
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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 06:31:02 AM »
I think that you're being very harsh here. Though I don't like myself the way the sound is so dominated by the recorder, it's certainly not a favourite of mine.

Well, I maintain my opinion. There is on this recording neither satisfying rethorical eloquence nor sense of the urgent logic of the pieces. The affects of the many short sections in these pieces must follow each other in a logical sequence. Much better can be had elsewhere. Compare f.x. Boeke's canzona La Bernadina with Hans-Martin Linde's. Boeke plays as if he is not that familar with the piece.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 12:37:12 PM »
On the Musica Fiata recording there's an organ performance of the Book 1 Toccata 11 - a chamber organ by the sound of it, and that gives the music an intimacy which seems very nice. I think it's exceptional - the piece can wonder but whoever's playing it there keeps it well under control.
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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 12:50:46 PM »
On the Musica Fiata recording there's an organ performance of the Book 1 Toccata 11 - a chamber organ by the sound of it, and that gives the music an intimacy which seems very nice. I think it's exceptional - the piece can wonder but whoever's playing it there keeps it well under control.

Christoph Lehmann.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 12:56:58 PM »
Christoph Lehmann.

Time to listen to Scheidt vol. 5 then!
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Re: Recordings of Canzoni di Sonare by Frescobaldi
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2017, 08:18:40 PM »
I suppose, that you know this:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Die-historische-Orgel-in-Tangerm%FCnde/hnum/9751338

and this:

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/art/Christoph-Lehmann-Scherer-Orgel-in-St-Stephan-Tangerm%FCnde/hnum/2537598

I know "of" them, and they're on Spotify, I'll listen soon. That said, when I played his Scheidt magnificat 2nd tone last night, I thought it was really very good indeed. The organ at Tangermünde works in this music I think.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:40:34 PM by Mandryka »
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