Transcriptions, adaptations, inspired by

[knight66]

This thread is to discuss the above, plus editions of music not usually played. It is inspired by a discussion elsewhere on the site. A suggestion was made to me that as I did not enjoy the Ravel Mother Goose suite in its normal form, I might enjoy the four hand piano version. I do and thought we could share performances we have enjoyed that may be produced by the composer, eg Schoenberg produced a chamber music version of his Song of the Wood Dove from Gurrelieder. Or it may be you know someone else's transcription such as Liszt was famous for. There is Max Richter's Four Seasons, which is a homage to and reworking of the  Vivaldi, etc....you catch my drift?

There is an unexpected Die Schöne Schubert Müllerin  substituting the guitar for the piano. Schubert played the guitar and did some composition that included the instrument. There is a Contemporanious Diabelli version which I do not know. But it is said not to be as faithful to the original as the version I do have by John Duarte and the guitarist on the recording, Konrad Ragossnig. Peter Schreier is the singer and is recorded in excellent voice in 1980. If you assume this makes for a lightweight performance, not so. The duo do justice to the range of emotions. Clearly the guitar cannot produce the variation of tone that a piano can, but it is not so distant from the kind of sound we expect from a fortepiano. It does make me listen more closely than usual at the accompanimnet and it does not sound undernourished.

Like many alternative versions, it is not preferable, but provides a refreshing of music I know well and it gives me a lot of pleasure.

Mike

[MishaK]

Someone once told me how she thought that a transcription of Schubert's Arpeggione Sonata for trombone was one of the most amazing things she had heard.

Sriously, though, this is an interesting topic. I think the one piece in this respect that causes me a certain minimum background level of irritation is Mussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition. Because I have played the original piano version and am intimately familiar with the score, I have always found Ravel's orchestration inadequate on many levels (apart from the mere fact that he was working from an incomplete and erroneous piano version). Yet, even so, Ravel's skill as an orchestrator is undenable even if he often completely misses the colors and atmosphere that Mussorgsky would have gone for. And the amazing thing is that even so, listening to Ravel's or any other orchestration you still learn a ton about voicing and balancing and coloring *on the piano* that you wouldn't have learned had you been listening to just the piano version, even in the most amazing hands of a Richter or Kissin. And *even then* you go back to the piano and find colors that even the orchestra can't properly replicate.

[Mandryka]

There's a whole world of these things in early music. To take one example,  I think some of D'Anglebert's best and most exciting music are his harpsichord transcriptions of Lully operas, Another example, maybe slightly less successful, is Rameau's own transcriptions for harpsichord of his ensemble music.

D'Anglebert was particularly adept at the transcription game - there's not only Lully, there's also Mezangeot and Vieux Gautier transcriptions, all oustanding music.

The notion of adaptation and inspiration is central to recent British music - I don't know if it applies to other national styles. I first became aware of it through some music by Peter Maxwell Davies inspired by John Dunstable, and Brian Ferneyhough's Dum Transisset, based on music by Christopher Tye. If anyone has any ideas about Ferneyhough's transcriptions I'd love to hear them, because the music's great but I can't hear the relation to Tye.

But the king of the transcription and adaptation is Michael Finnissy. His music's stuffed with intertextual references, like a novel by Joyce. But more than that, the music in the Verdi transcriptions is wonderful - even if I can't quite see the link to Verdi. Maybe someone has explored it more deelply than I have.

[knight66]

Misha, I have the Stokowski version of the Pictures, I like them and think he produces some interesting ideas, but for some reason, he did not orchestrate them all, which compromises my enjoyment. Do you recommend any of the alternative orchestrations?

Mike

[knight66]

But the king of the transcription and adaptation is Michael Finnissy. His music's stuffed with intertextual references, like a novel by Joyce. But more than that, the music in the Verdi transcriptions is wonderful - even if I can't quite see the link to Verdi. Maybe someone has explored it more deelply than I have.

Right, that's it, I am off to see what I can find down the Finnissy alley, I onow very little of his music, don't think I own one bar of his.

Mike

[Mandryka]

I remember posting some secondary stuff Finnissy wrote on the Verdi transcriptions here, on the Finnissy thread. He has some transcriptions of Gershwin too, but I haven't so far enjoyed them so much - they seem a bit tame.

Oh and I forgot to mention one of my very favourite things in any style - Anner Bylsma's performance of his own transcription of J S Bach's D minor flute sonata - the transcription is for violincello da picollo and the performance is a model of theatrical baroque, the whole thing is like an enormous recitative.

Another favourite is Hans Zender's adaptation of Schumann's fantasie . . .

[knight66]

     ^{https://m.youtube.com/results?q=finnissy%20verdi%20transcription&sm=3}   

Found the Finnssy/Verdi transcriptions on Youtube. I will have a listen.

Mike

[North Star]

Ravel's arrangement of La mer for pf4h.
https://www.youtube.com/v/eEJIGTJ3uRE

Berio arranged all kinds of stuff, and there's the Rendering, building around sketched of  Schubert's unfinished D major symphony, D936a.

E: And of course Zender's 'composed interpretation of Winterreise
https://www.youtube.com/v/qeETnlLqdJ8

[North Star]

There are gobs of these transcriptions, adaptations etc in the oeuvres of composer pianists after Liszt, of course
Ronald Stevenson - from about halfway down the page, all these are transcriptions or arrangements of some sort.

On Inon Barnatan's album, there's also Darknesse Visible, Thomas Adès's 'explosion' of Dowland's song In Darknesse Let Mee Dwell.

No notes have been added; indeed, some have been removed. Patterns latent in the original have been isolated and regrouped, with the aim of illuminating the song from within, as if during the course of a performance.

https://www.youtube.com/v/L-WhcaDQhn4 https://www.youtube.com/v/r6dJjc613Ss

[knight66]

North Star,

I especially enjoy the Zender Schubert reworking that you have posted.

This expands the cycle in duration. In some songs it it the orchestration that is novel, others he uses themes to provide extended variations, but remaining within the overall structure of the songs. The orchestrations are very atmospheric. Ice cold wind rushes out of the speakers. It is wonderfully sung. The piece becomes even more demanding on the stamana of the singer than in the original.

Mike

[EigenUser]

I'm a fan of the Berg Op. 1 and there was a great orchestration I heard a few months ago that I really liked.

Ravel's Une Barque sur l'Ocean is an interesting case where I like the orchestrated version more than the original (which is especially odd, since most people don't -- Ravel included!). There is a very good orchestration of GdlN, but I still strongly prefer the original version.

[pjme]

Here is Riccardo Chailly with the RCO in Theo Verbey's version of Berg's pianosonata.

https://www.youtube.com/v/nyiNbL5tV0g

Read more about Verbey en his interest in Alban Berg, Scriabin, Stravinsky etc.  : http://www.theoverbey.com/web/home.aspx

[pjme]

Detlev Glanert (°1960) is another composer who makes orchestrations and adaptations.



Boosey & Hawkes:

Detlev Glanert studied with Henze in Cologne * Acclaimed particularly for his operas and orchestral works which demonstrate lyrical gifts and a fascination with the Romantic past viewed from a modern perspective * Admires Mahler for his expressive encompassing of the entire world, and Ravel for his glittering artificial surfaces * Won the prestigious Rolf Liebermann Opera Prize in 1993 for The Mirror of the Great Emperor, staged at Mannheim in 1995 and Mönchengladbach in 1997, and the Bavarian Theatre Prize in 2001 for Jest, Satire, Irony and Deeper Meaning, with numerous stage productions his most successful opera so far * Orchestral output includes three symphonies and concertos for piano and violin * his works are conducted by, among others, Markus Stenz, Oliver Knussen, Kent Nagano, Semyon Bychkov, Donald Runnicles, Iván Fischer, Christian Thielemann and Jun Märkl

Works by Detlev Glanert include:
Mahler/Skizze (1989) for ensemble
Secret Room (2002) Chamber sonata for ensemble
Jest, Satire, Irony and Deeper Meaning (1999/2000) Comic opera after the play by Grabbe
Four Preludes and Serious Songs (2004/05) for bass baritone and orchestra

Looking Ahead: composing new works within his residency as house composer with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra in Amsterdam; first tour of new orchestration of Mahler's 9 Wunderhornlieder with baritone Dietrich Henschel and film by Clara Pons, including Brussels, Amiens, London and Rotterdam (Mar/Apr); WP of the first of a trilogy of American Preludes for orchestra

"The language is direct and highly expressive; the mood dark and troubled" — The Independent

Johannes Brahms:

https://www.youtube.com/v/LAifJAcFc80

Last week, at the KLARA festival in Brussels ( and other European cities): http://www.wunderhorn-film.com/?lang=en

http://www.klarafestival.be/nl/content/wunderhorn-revisited


P.

[amw]

I am kind of obsessed with this stuff, no brainpower for an actual post so here are some lists

Some transcriptions/arrangements/adaptations/etc I really like

Berlioz/Liszt Symphonie Fantastique
Beethoven/Liszt Symphonies
Schubert/Berio Rendering
Schubert/Joachim Grand Duo
Schumann/Zender Fantasie
Field Recordings/Ablinger (Quadraturen mit Berlin), Various Historical Figures/Ablinger (Voices and Piano), Blank Record/Ablinger (Record and Piano), etc >.>
Haydn/anon. Surprise Symphony (for flute, violin, cello and piano)
Brahms/Schoenberg Piano Quartet (the Brahms/Holloway Piano Quintet, never performed, also looks really interesting)
Brahms/Rubbra Handel Variations
Brahms/Brahms Serenades for piano duet
Bruckner/Samale/Mazzuca/Cohrs/Philips 9
etc

Pieces I have contemplated orchestrating, adapting or transcribing (during the last six months)

Some or all of Messiaen's Vingt regards for Éclairs-sized orchestra (5 piccolos, 8 horns, Wagner tubas, ondes martenot, etc)
Brahms's Second Symphony for string octet
Shostakovich's Second Piano Trio for the instrumentation of Schoenberg's 1st Chamber Symphony
Beethoven's Hammerklavier as a piano concerto
Medtner's third violin sonata for violin and orchestra
Alkan's Concerto for solo piano for violin and orchestra
A 'symphony' made up of orchestrations of Chopin's Allegro de concert (transposed to A-flat major), Nocturne Op. 27 No. 2, Scherzo Op. 38 and Polonaise-Fantaisie Op. 61
Rewrite & completion of Schubert's 'Reliquie' D.840 as a string quartet

[pjme]

Several works by César Franck have been orchestrated:

Prélude, choral et fugue by Gabriel Pierné  :

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/royal_flanders_philharmonic___gunter_neuhold/symphony_in_d_minor__prelude__choral_et_fugue/

If my memory is correct, the Trois chorals have been orchestrated aswell - but by whom?

P.

[Jo498]

I am quite fond of the Schoenberg etc. Strauss Waltzes, also the Schoenberg/Brahms piano quintet and some Bach orchestrations. Also the Schoenberg/Mahler Lieder and das Lied von der Erde (completed by someone else).
As I am not too fond of the organ I also like piano arrangements of the Bach organ pieces.

Usually less convinced by piano vs. orchestra. I clearly prefer Mussorgsky over Ravel in the "Pictures", Brahms' hungarian dances in the piano (4 hand) version, never bothered with the Liszt/Beethoven after hearing one disc of the Naxos series and I detest the Chopin arrangements for some kind of ballett? by a bunch of russian composers.

And one of the most bizarre things is Weingartner's orchestration of Beethoven's op.106. Apparently even after 80 years there exists only Weingartner's own recording from the ealry 1930s... It's certainly worth listening to... once!

[pjme]

Claude Debussy:

the Preludes : Colin Mathews, Luc Brewaeys ( a recomposition) and Hans Henkemans





Henkemans / Haitink:

https://www.youtube.com/v/jHjpM8k7moo

Probably no longer available, but very interesting ( orchestrations / adaptations by De Cou, Ansermet, P.H.Büsser, Gustave Cloez and André Caplet)



Not to forget sir Henry Wood ( never shy of some extra tubular bells, gongs and an organ), Stokowsky and Percy Grainger.

See and listen YT: https://youtu.be/4UyUCbqcId0


P.

[springrite]

I remember quite liking the Ashkenazy transcription (of Pictures @ an Exhibition). I should pull it out again for another listen.

[San Antone]

Charles Wuorinen's Bearbeitung über das Glogauer Liederbuch, a set of arrangements for flute, clarinet, violin and cello of pieces from a late 15th-century song collection, can be found on this recording:

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And Josquiniana

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[Gurn Blanston]

One of my favorite "inspired by" works:

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Tchaikovsky was a huge Mozart fan, fortunately he had the talent to pay proper homage.