Karajan ~ Beethoven The Symphonies 6 SACD's boxset

Started by Solitary Wanderer, April 12, 2007, 04:30:23 PM

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Solitary Wanderer

April 12, 2007, 04:30:23 PM
I've just received this boxset, Karajan ~ Beethoven The Symphonies 6 SACD's boxset



I already had the single SACD of the 7th & 8th, which is excellent, but decided to take the plunge and get the boxset. I've read the version of the 6th is poor but the rest, especially the 5th are brillant. The set includes a bonus SACD of a rehersal of the 9th.

I've some wonderful listening ahead  :)

I invite your comments.
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

Gurn Blanston

#1
April 12, 2007, 04:32:43 PM
Which of his 3 (that I know of) cycles would this be, Sol?  :)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

PerfectWagnerite

#2
April 12, 2007, 04:39:59 PM
That looks like the 1963 set which is much better recorded than the '80s set. I haven't heard the '70s set so I can't comment on that one.

Solitary Wanderer

#3
April 12, 2007, 05:03:17 PM
I believe Karajan has done four complete Beethoven symphony cycles.

Yes, the one I've just got is from 1963.
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

PerfectWagnerite

#4
April 12, 2007, 05:07:57 PM
Quote from: Solitary Wanderer on April 12, 2007, 05:03:17 PM
I believe Karajan has done four complete Beethoven symphony cycles.

Yes, the one I've just got is from 1963.


Yes, if you count the '50s mono Philharmonia set on EMI.

Harry

#5
April 12, 2007, 10:58:09 PM
The 1963 cycle is just wonderful, and the 6th is amongst its best IMO. The SACD remastering is excellent, even the stereo layer sounds better.

The 70th cycle is differently recorded, but that does not mean that it is worse, the sound is very good. And interpretation is more to my liking.The tempi are in some cases higher, and the ensemble is more tight. There is simply more drive. Equally good.

The 80th cycle does add a certain refinement which is at times to creamy for me, but still a wonderful achievement. Sound is lush but lucid.

jwinter

#6
April 13, 2007, 06:05:17 AM
It's an excellent set.  I haven't heard the SACD layer, but the standard is indeed improved.  I used to prefer the 70's set to the 60's largely for the sound -- I now prefer the classic 60's by a hair.  This would certainly be my HvK Beethoven rec.

If you want a little more, there's a recent bargain 2-fer of the 5th, 6th, & 9th from Karajan's 70's set (also remastered) that would make a great supplement -- the 6th is notoriously the weak link from the 60's set, the 9th is probably Karajan's best of his numerous recordings, and the 5th is by far my favorite recording of the piece.
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.

-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

Bunny

#7
April 13, 2007, 06:48:47 AM
I have the cycle from the Complete Beethoven Edition which was also a major remastering.  Is the sound quality improved enough to justify upgrading?

Harry

#8
April 13, 2007, 08:22:47 AM
Quote from: Bunny on April 13, 2007, 06:48:47 AM
I have the cycle from the Complete Beethoven Edition which was also a major remastering.  Is the sound quality improved enough to justify upgrading?



Yes Bunny I think it is!

jwinter

#9
April 13, 2007, 08:57:13 AM
Quote from: Bunny on April 13, 2007, 06:48:47 AM
I have the cycle from the Complete Beethoven Edition which was also a major remastering.  Is the sound quality improved enough to justify upgrading?

It's significantly better than the standard budget box of the 60's set -- I haven't heard the complete Beethoven version, so I can't comment on that...
The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night,
And his affections dark as Erebus.
Let no such man be trusted.

-- William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

Poetdante

#10
April 13, 2007, 08:51:10 PM
Quote from: Harry on April 13, 2007, 08:22:47 AM
Yes Bunny I think it is!

I also have this 'Edition version'.
If the SACD's stereo layer is better, hmm...;;;
I think the cover of this box set is really cool. Mayber Karajan like that.  :)

Anyway, in the three DG Beethoven cycle of Kajaran(I haven't heard EMI's 50's set),
I can't estimate them in overall, but I just pick some playing.
60's - No.3, No.5
70's - No.5, No.9
80's - No.3, No.7

70's No.9 is fully dynamic and elaborate!
Chopin, forever.

Bunny

#11
April 14, 2007, 10:43:16 AM
Quote from: Harry on April 13, 2007, 08:22:47 AM
Yes Bunny I think it is!

I guess you probably have the Complete Beethoven Edition as well as the newer SACD set so you would know.  I just don't know if I want to spend more money unless it's really spectacularly better.  Is the sound multichannel (3 or 4 speakers) or merely 2 channel SACD?  And if it's multichannel, was it taped for 3 or 4 speakers or is it just being mixed for multichannel sound?  I bought the SACD release of Kleiber's Beethoven 5 and 7 and the improvement in sound was not worth the  cost of the new set.

Solitary Wanderer

#12
April 14, 2007, 02:25:17 PM
Listened to #3 & #4 last night.

#3 was sensational!
'I lingered round them, under that benign sky: watched the moths fluttering among the heath and harebells, listened to the soft wind breathing through the grass, and wondered how any one could ever imagine unquiet slumbers for the sleepers in that quiet earth.' ~ Emily Bronte

Harry

#13
April 14, 2007, 02:31:40 PM
Happy to hear that my friend. :)

Iago

#14
April 15, 2007, 12:28:54 PM
It's too bad that Karajan never recorded a complete Beethoven Symphonies set with the Vienna Philharmonic. Now THAT would have been something special.
I (to this day) think that orchestra can play rings around any other in the world-including the Berlin Philharmonic.
"Good", is NOT good enough, when "better" is expected

George

#15
April 15, 2007, 03:39:29 PM
Quote from: Bunny on April 13, 2007, 06:48:47 AM
I have the cycle from the Complete Beethoven Edition which was also a major remastering.  Is the sound quality improved enough to justify upgrading?



According to David Hurwitz, maybe not:

"This classic set was very well remastered as part of DG's complete Beethoven Edition, and here on SACD stereo the improvement is small but noticeable, perhaps not so much in terms of brighter timbres or increased clarity, but as a function of added warmth and naturalness--a touch more depth to the sound image and a greater sense of fullness."

-David Hurwitz

Xenophanes

#16
April 15, 2007, 03:52:58 PM
Quote from: Harry on April 12, 2007, 10:58:09 PM
The 1963 cycle is just wonderful, and the 6th is amongst its best IMO. The SACD remastering is excellent, even the stereo layer sounds better.

The 70th cycle is differently recorded, but that does not mean that it is worse, the sound is very good. And interpretation is more to my liking.The tempi are in some cases higher, and the ensemble is more tight. There is simply more drive. Equally good.

The 80th cycle does add a certain refinement which is at times to creamy for me, but still a wonderful achievement. Sound is lush but lucid.

My short account of his performance of the Pastorale in the 1963 set is that he conducts it as a symphony rather than as a tone poem.  I happen to like several others even better but it's still an interesting Pastorale. I just have the cheap CD set, which sounds quite good.

George

#17
April 15, 2007, 03:55:01 PM
Quote from: Xenophanes on April 15, 2007, 03:52:58 PM
I just have the cheap CD set, which sounds quite good.

Me too! I have found no reason to upgrade.  :)

AnthonyAthletic

#18
April 15, 2007, 04:04:23 PM
Quote from: George on April 15, 2007, 03:39:29 PM
According to David Hurwitz, maybe not:

"This classic set was very well remastered as part of DG's complete Beethoven Edition, and here on SACD stereo the improvement is small but noticeable, perhaps not so much in terms of brighter timbres or increased clarity, but as a function of added warmth and naturalness--a touch more depth to the sound image and a greater sense of fullness."

-David Hurwitz

I have both sets, old style cd and sacd....and the stereo sound is barely noticeable  ;D

Makes me wonder why I shelled out money for the sacd set  ;)

"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying"      (Arthur C. Clarke)

George

#19
April 15, 2007, 04:20:42 PM
Quote from: AnthonyAthletic on April 15, 2007, 04:04:23 PM
I have both sets, old style cd and sacd....and the stereo sound is barely noticeable  ;D

Makes me wonder why I shelled out money for the sacd set  ;)

Victim of marketing?  ;D
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