New to Wagner - Just purchased this big box set.

[Madiel]

But even the Mozart-Da Ponte operas have some problems. Figaro is as perfect as can be, but Don Giovanni has issues especially in the second act, which is built more around Leporello than the Don and at times feels like a static set of arias.

Well, being built around a different character than the named one is not a fault. I won't debate stasis with you.

[Karl Henning]

Good luck if you ever sit through all 2.5 hours in the opera house.

I know better than to pay that much for a nap.
Overall, my stamina is not what it was before my stroke. I'm learning some limits by trial and error.

[71 dB]

Act 1 almost done of Meistersinger on Spotify. I am liking the music quite a lot! In general I am not into opera buffa and this is supposed to be Wagner's only comic opera. Maybe it is all in the libretto, because the music sounds serious enough to my ears. It looks like Meistersinger would be a good choice to get on Blu-ray.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I won't debate stasis with you.

Oh good, Madiel. I was afraid you were going to.

[Kalevala]

I know better than to pay that much for a nap.
Overall, my stamina is not what it was before my stroke. I'm learning some limits by trial and error.

It's o.k.  Do what works for you.

K

[Karl Henning]

It's o.k.  Do what works for you.

K

Thx.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Act 1 almost done of Meistersinger on Spotify. I am liking the music quite a lot! In general I am not into opera buffa and this is supposed to be Wagner's only comic opera. Maybe it is all in the libretto, because the music sounds serious enough to my ears. It looks like Meistersinger would be a good choice to get on Blu-ray.

It is not really a buffa work, though it has some comic elements like the town brawl ending Act Two. But it is a comedy in the sense that it ends in the prospect of marriage for the tenor and soprano. For a Blu-ray, I would recommend the Glyndebourne under Jurowaski. The Met Opera DVD under Levine is also quite good. Australian Opera under Mackerras is a good performance with lousy audio/video. Steer clear of some recent ones like the Sebastien Weigle directed by Katharina Wiegle; it is simply eccentric.

[Karl Henning]

This is really apt. I found knowledge of the story insufficient, so indeed the English subtitles has transformed the experience. I've found Das Rheingold really wonderful. Without suggesting that it is boring, I found myself needing to cut out for a nap at about the 75-minute mark. More a question or aural satiety than at all of boredom. Going back now.

Enjoyed Das Rh. entirely. And that was the idea.

[Madiel]

Oh good, Madiel. I was afraid you were going to.

It's so AWFUL when people have their own opinions, isn't it? Ruins the blog entirely.

[Madiel]

Let me be clear about something: the only reason I contributed to what now appears to be a meeting of the Wagner devotees society was that someone appeared to be trying to FORCE themselves to join. Willing themselves to get into the music when they hadn't so far.

Which is just unnecessary. I don't much care if people enjoy listening to Wagner (well, so long as that doesn't involve endorsing his more objectionable viewpoints like virulent anti-Semitism, but I subscribe to a certain separation between art and artist). But enjoying Wagner, or even listening to Wagner, is not some kind of moral imperative.

I'm sorry to have disrupted the groupthink.

[(poco) Sforzando]

But enjoying Wagner, or even listening to Wagner, is not some kind of moral imperative.

Whoever said it was?

[(poco) Sforzando]

I don't much care if people enjoy listening to Wagner (well, so long as that doesn't involve endorsing his more objectionable viewpoints like virulent anti-Semitism, but I subscribe to a certain separation between art and artist).

I have argued at length elsewhere on this board (but I'd have to dig it out) that much as I love Die Meistersinger, I consider it a deeply anti-Semitic work.

[Elgarian Redux]

This is really apt. I found knowledge of the story insufficient, so indeed the English subtitles has transformed the experience. I've found Das Rheingold really wonderful. Without suggesting that it is boring, I found myself needing to cut out for a nap at about the 75-minute mark. More a question or aural satiety than at all of boredom. Going back now.

I found the music ringing around my head as I read this. I'm really pleased it worked.

[Elgarian Redux]

I assume you are familiar with her remarkable performance in Tannhauser.

Tannhauser has always been a Wagnerian blind spot. I said in another post that for me, Wagner means the Ring (and sometimes Tristan). So I believe completely that Gwyneth Jones is magnificent in the recording you mention, but if I want to listen to her, I'm likely to turn once more to the Boulez Ring.

I can see this may appear as a closed mind outlook, but actually the Ring is fathomless, and I know I'll never get to the bottom of it - so these days, that's where I put my Wagnerian money.

[ritter]

Curious (but only natural) how our respective apprecations Wagner's works can differ. For me, the Wagnerian opera summa are Parsifal and Die Meistersinger. Then, in my order of preference, come The Ring and Tristan. Of the early works of the Bayreuth canon, my preference goes to Tannhäuser, followed by he Dutchman, and lastly, Lohengrin.

I have little time for the thre early workd, and think that the inclusion of Rienzi in next year's Bayreuth programme is a curiosity.

[Florestan]

I've sit through The Flying Dutchman live and listened to the whole of Tristan & Isolde, Lohengrin, Tannhauser and Meistersinger. All of them bored the hell out of me, both libretto-wise and music-wise (as for the alleged comicality of the latter, the only chuckle it gave me was at the thought that it is supposed to be a comedy). At the time I didn't know Rossini's bon mots with respect to Wagner's music (great moments, awful quarters of hour; it can't be judged at first hearing but I have no intention to hear it a second time) but they summarize my own feelings and thoughts. I have long since concluded that Wagner's aesthetic is utterly incompatible with mine and any attempt to bridge the gap is futile.

[ritter]

I've sit through The Flying Dutchman live and listened to the whole of Tristan & Isolde, Lohengrin, Tannhauser and Meistersinger. All of them bored the hell out of me, both libretto-wise and music-wise (as for the alleged comicality of the latter, the only chuckle it gave me was at the thought that it is supposed to be a comedy). At the time I didn't know Rossini's bon mots with respect to Wagner's music (great moments, awful quarters of hour; it can't be judged at first hearing but I have no intention to hear it a second time) but they summarize my own feelings and thoughts. I have long since concluded that Wagner's aesthetic is utterly incompatible with mine and any attempt to bridge the gap is futile.

And on he goes....Basta! Basta! Per carità!.

What I really find funny (funnier even than any Rossini opera buffa) is that whenever Wagner is discussed, ou dear Florestan invariably shows up to tell us how boring he finds the composer's work and how poor his libretti are (without speaking a word of German, IIRC). Anti-Wagnerites seem to be as obsessed with the composer as Wagnerites are, which says a lot.

All respccet and appreciation for the last sentence in the post, which is perfectly legitimate, but what precedes it... same old, same old.

[Florestan]

The question has been raised in the preceding pages whether those who find Wagner's music boring have actually heard it. My post is in response to that (although I saw your reply coming).

But generally speaking, do Wagnerites have a monopoly on Wagner threads? Is only burning incense at his altar allowed?

As for me not speaking German, that's why I previously deferred the matter to Schopenhauer, a universally acclaimed master of German prose, whose devastating critique (which I presume you didn't read) is based mostly on questions of bad style and bad wording.

It's amusing to see even Wagnerites who otherwise have a sense of humor losing it completely when it comes to their idol.

Sei mir gegrüßt! Pace e gioia per mille anni!

[ritter]

The question has been raised in the preceding pages whether those who find Wagner's music boring have actually heard it. My post is in response to that (although I saw your reply coming).

But generally speaking, do Wagnerites have a monopoly on Wagner threads? Is only burning incense at his altar allowed?

As for me not speaking German, that's why I previously deferred the matter to Schopenhauer, a universally acclaimed master of German prose, whose devastating critique (which I presume you didn't read) is based mostly on questions of bad style and bad wording.

It's amusing to see even Wagnerites who otherwise have a sense of humor losing it completely when it comes to their idol.

Sei mir gegrüßt! Pace e gioia per mille anni!

Fair enough.

What I find simultaneolsy amusing and irksome is that when a fellow GMGer asks for suggestions on how to get to now Wagner better (after having shown apprecaition of one of his works), a couple of other GMGers simply tell him, most insistently, "don't get to know Wagner better, it's not woth it, his music is boring, his texts are rubbish". Very constructive...

[Florestan]

Fair enough.

What I find simultaneolsy amusing and irksome is that when a fellow GMGer asks for suggestions on how to get to now Wagner better (after having shown apprecaition of one of his works), a couple of other GMGers simply tell him, most insistently, "don't get to know Wagner better, it's not woth it, his music is boring, his texts are rubbish". Very constructive...

I never told 71dB that he shouldn't explore Wagner.