Your personal nicknames for composers and musicians

[mc ukrneal]

Abbreviations on the internet are o.k. because "Shostakovich" is a lot to write and I always have to concentrate not to spell it the "German" way (Schostakowitsch).
But I really hate the mock familiarity of people who seem to find it funny to refer to Haydn as "Joe". For me this is mainly silly, but also sounds denigrating and lack of respect (independent of whether I care for the artist in question).
Unfortunately, many from the Anglosphere are completely unable to understand such feelings and find it continental European squareness.

I am confused. Why is Shosty ok, but Joe (or Papa) not? What about Lennie (or Lenny)? And do you agree that this might fall into the category of cultural differences, where what is unacceptable in one society is perfectly acceptable (and even encouraged) in another?

[Jo498]

I do not like "Shosty" either, I was more thinking of shorthands like DSCH or LvB that show no fake familiarity.

Of course I am aware that nicknames are supposed to show affection. I have nothing against using nicknames for your friends or your dogs.
If there is an established nickname like "Lennie" it's generally o.k. but I still think it is somewhat problematic because I seem to claim a familiarity that I obviously never had with Bernstein whom I never met in person or at a concert.
"Papa Haydn" also falls in this category for me; it's established but also has connotations I dislike because we are not contemporaries and it also communicates a picture of Haydn as dear old Papa I find very one-sided.

But what I really find preposterous is to make up "personal" American style nicknames for people from different cultures (who often have been dead for centuries). Like "Joe" for Haydn or "Freddy" for Chopin or whatever. It claims a familiarity that obviously does not exist, at best. At worst (like Bunny) it seems so obviously disrespectful and denigrating that I really do not know where to start. These people are not your dogs and it is incredibly arrogant to treat them with such mock familiarity.

[EigenUser]

I do not like "Shosty" either, I was more thinking of shorthands like DSCH or LvB that show no fake familiarity.

Of course I am aware that nicknames are supposed to show affection. I have nothing against using nicknames for your friends or your dogs.
If there is an established nickname like "Lennie" it's generally o.k. but I still think it is somewhat problematic because I seem to claim a familiarity that I obviously never had with Bernstein whom I never met in person or at a concert.
"Papa Haydn" also falls in this category for me; it's established but also has connotations I dislike because we are not contemporaries and it also communicates a picture of Haydn as dear old Papa I find very one-sided.

But what I really find preposterous is to make up "personal" American style nicknames for people from different cultures (who often have been dead for centuries). Like "Joe" for Haydn or "Freddy" for Chopin or whatever. It claims a familiarity that obviously does not exist, at best. At worst (like Bunny) it seems so obviously disrespectful and denigrating that I really do not know where to start. These people are not your dogs and it is incredibly arrogant to treat them with such mock familiarity.

I think that a lot of these are done just as a joke. Clearly, the music by those you mention is very well-respected. No one writing on GMG can possibly claim to have a personal familiarity with Haydn or Chopin, so it isn't like anyone is being deceived. If someone were to refer to Haydn as "Joe", I'm not going to think "Oh, wow, they must go golfing every weekend!" Haydn is dead, and his music has been revered for hundreds of years. It will be revered for many more to come. A nickname won't change that.*

*Although, I don't approve of "Joe", either. It just doesn't sound right to me for Haydn. That is just in this particular instance, though.

[amw]

I think it's kind of disrespectful to just refer to composers as 'Schubert' or 'Ustvolskaya' or 'Borodin' or 'Britten' as though they were schoolboys. We should say Mr. Schubert, Mrs. Ustvolskaya, Lord Britten, Dr. Borodin and so forth.

I also really hate the nickname Dvorak for Dvořák. Czech human being, not esoteric keyboard layout. Jesus people.

[Jo498]

If they are jokes, they are fairly lame and disrespectful. Some people will also just address someone with a common nickname (e.g. call a Robert Bob etc.) without inquiry whether this person goes by this nickname or rather prefers his full name (or a different nickname, e.g. Rob). I find this disrespectful as well.

You can do that with your dogs but with people you should ask how they would like to be called. With dead white males it is of course mainly silly. But the reactions in the thread show that there very clearly is a strain of thought that "putting someone on a pedestal" should be avoided at all costs no matter how much one admires his music or artistry.
I do agree that in former times the reverence extended to certain artists sometimes bordered on the comical and idolatrous.
But I find the common stance today to stress they are all "petty little poopers like everyone else" almost more repulsive. Treating a historically or artistically notable person in a neutral respectful fashion should be the norm. One will not counter devout Wagnerians simply by speaking of "Dick" or "Richie".

[mc ukrneal]

If they are jokes, they are fairly lame and disrespectful. Some people will also just address someone with a common nickname (e.g. call a Robert Bob etc.) without inquiry whether this person goes by this nickname or rather prefers his full name (or a different nickname, e.g. Rob). I find this disrespectful as well.

You can do that with your dogs but with people you should ask how they would like to be called. With dead white males it is of course mainly silly. But the reactions in the thread show that there very clearly is a strain of thought that "putting someone on a pedestal" should be avoided at all costs no matter how much one admires his music or artistry.
I do agree that in former times the reverence extended to certain artists sometimes bordered on the comical and idolatrous.
But I find the common stance today to stress they are all "petty little poopers like everyone else" almost more repulsive. Treating a historically or artistically notable person in a neutral respectful fashion should be the norm. One will not counter devout Wagnerians simply by speaking of "Dick" or "Richie".

You haven't really addressed the cultural side of this (or the quetion about it I posited before). American society values irreverance. And I think parts of other societies do too. Irreverence is not necessarily disrespect. Or is it in your view? We have numerous instances of it in today's society, like J Lo or Brangelina. I wonder if you think these disrespectful too.

[71 dB]

My friend calls Rachmaninov 'Rahmis'. 

[NJ Joe]

One should have nicknames for Philip Glass and Steve Reich, minimally.

[Ten thumbs]

I still like to think of Fanny Hensel by her public appellation: Frau Professor

Sometimes Verdi is referred to as Joe Green but only in a very affectionate way. This is hardly disrespectful.

[vandermolen]

VW for Vaughan Williams but hardly a nickname.

I have a friend called Brian Williams who wanted to change his name to 'Williams Brian' as a tribute to Havergal Brian  .

[Christo]

I have a friend called Brian Williams who wanted to change his name to 'Williams Brian' as a tribute to Havergal Brian  .

  To make the hommage even more confusing: Havergal Brian was actually born 'William Brian' and later adopted "Havergal" (from a local dynasty of hymn-writers) as an artist's name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havergal_Brian

[Brian]

I think it's kind of disrespectful to just refer to composers as 'Schubert' or 'Ustvolskaya' or 'Borodin' or 'Britten' as though they were schoolboys. We should say Mr. Schubert, Mrs. Ustvolskaya, Lord Britten, Dr. Borodin and so forth.

I also really hate the nickname Dvorak for Dvořák. Czech human being, not esoteric keyboard layout. Jesus people.

Backwardsly, I had a couple of friends in high school who nicknamed me "Mr. Dvořák".

[springrite]

At least none of us are calling Giuseppe Verdi "Joe Green".

[Christo]

Sometimes Verdi is referred to as Joe Green but only in a very affectionate way. This is hardly disrespectful.

At least none of us are calling Giuseppe Verdi "Joe Green".

Any more bids? 

[vandermolen]

  To make the hommage even more confusing: Havergal Brian was actually born 'William Brian' and later adopted "Havergal" (from a local dynasty of hymn-writers) as an artist's name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havergal_Brian

Didn't know that, VMT (very many thanks) 

[springrite]

Any more bids? 

The last time I heard someone call him Joe Green was Bonnie Grice at KUSC in the early 90's.

[Florestan]

Dick Cartwright, Johnny Brook, Charlie Weaver, Roge Lionhorse, Claudie Greenmountain, Gusty Grinder... 

I don't know who on Earth can refer to Verdi as Joe Green but it's the top of bad taste.

[Ten thumbs]

I don't know who on Earth can refer to Verdi as Joe Green but it's the top of bad taste.

One must understand the English sense of humour, I'm afraid.

[Florestan]

One must understand the English sense of humour, I'm afraid.

Never heard about that, what is it? 

[Moonfish]

I don't know who on Earth can refer to Verdi as Joe Green but it's the top of bad taste.

Yeah! Only extraterrestrial life use "Joe Green" and other nicknames for Terran composers.