The Leusink Bach cantatas revisited

[Marc]

It's nice to read that listeners like Leusink's approach to the cantatas. But personally I've never been very pleased with this set. With Leonhardt/Harnoncourt, Koopman, Gardiner and Suzuki available on the integral HIP-market, this set seems completely superfluous to me.

IMHO, the Leusink integral sounds like a rushed project (200 cantatas recorded in a year!), with an inferior and sometimes screaming boy's choir with voices that don't blend, professional singers who sometimes don't seem to have a clue what they're singing about (Holton) and, as mentioned above, some of them straining their voices rather badly (Schoch, Van der Meel).

And yes, the rushed circumstances might well reflect Bach's own, and Bach also had his problems with his singers, but if Bach himself was happy with those conditions he would never have written his Entwurff.

It's been a long time since I listened to any Leusink disc, but I recall that countertenor Sytze Buwalda (despite his specific timbre, I understand it's not everyone's taste) and bass Bas Ramselaar were way better than the rest. At least they seemed to understand what they were singing.

Author's likely thought process:

1. I hate Christianity;
2. I like Bach;

hm this is awkward. So
3. because I like Bach, he must have hated Christianity as much as I do!

Yes, most likely.

Bach considered all music as a worship of God.
So, even if he would have composed a naughty opera for some secular monarch, it would still have been Soli Deo Gloria.

[Mandryka]

Re Bach's religious ideas, there's his Bible. I wouldn't mind having a copy in English, but Robin Leaver's book has become very expensive now.

[Sean]

Betterthanfine

Leusink is a practical man and hence can get at this music where others fail because they try too hard stylistically. Baroque music generally, and particularly with Bach's intellectual aspect, requires a very steady beat and control for the counterpoint's richness to speak for itself. Your criticism of his classical period performance might be valid.

aligreto

Nice kind words though I'm mostly against the idea of subjectivity in appraisal and music criticism- compositions and performances have distinct qualities to be identified and experienced. I do like Richter's committed approach, not least for the nostalgia for the period and I listened to the second of his filmed St Matthews a few weeks back on YT. I've seen Gardiner at the Edinburgh festival and was initially alerted to his skills from his extraordinary intense Mass- his forces however are inevitably England-meets-Germany.

DaveF

The more controversial figure I'd say is the countertenor Sytse Buwalda who can be blatant and insensitive, but he is a man, and can can basically do it.

Sarg

Nothing more angelic than a choir boy...

KenB

Take a quick look at the videos of Koopman or Suzuki- this is a wrongheadedly genteel respect for the music and doesn't get to the soul of it, even if it's a way to get to know the music. That's a very brief review though and I've only heard about three cantatas each.

Archaic

Glad you liked the article... great fun and well argued.
http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Articles/Bach-Atheist.htm

I'm not a Christian in the usual sense but I do respect the spirituality in it. I think this was Bach's view.

Premont

I agree that Buwalda asks for ears to be retuned.

Marc

Leusink is the only composer with the unified approach that can really get into this repertory. The whole aesthetic point of it is a minimalist searching around an expressive idiom and if you take decades over a recording project then individual perspectives on each cantata and a loss of perspective tend to creep in. The music's amazing richness arises out of its self-references and Bach's genius of finding new endless contrapuntal angles. And of course he composed and performed at a very similar rapid rate to the Leusink project.

The boys don't scream, they're definitely thereabouts with what they're doing; far more complaints to make about Harnoncourt's boy soloists.

In the humorous article above the point is made that Bach used the same music phrases for hail king as hail Jesus- hail whoever as long as he was getting paid.

Must be careful not to be portentous myself...

[Marc]

Yes, maybe Leusink's approach is a more unified one than others, but since I don't warm for this (more or less) minimalistic search, the results are still disappointing to me. IMO, Bach's music is far too good to be victimized to a strictly commercial goal, which by then was the Bach year 2000.

I.c. Harnoncourt's boy soloists: in general, I find them very good. All boys are members of the famous Tölzer Knabenchor or Wiener Sängerknaben. And most of the soloists seem to understand their lyrics far better than f.i. Ruth Holton. Some fine examples are Sebastian Hennig, Peter Jelosits and Marcus Klein.

About Bach's hail whomever: as I stated earlier, no matter for whom or for what purpose Bach composed, to him each music was a homage to God.
Despite a decline in salary compared to his Köthen engagement, he decided to apply for the job of Leipzig's Thomas Cantor, because this was his chance to create eine wohlbestallte Kirchen Musick. He composed a.o. five volumes of cantatas, but unfortunately there was too much struggle between Bach and town, church and school leaderships.
For instance, in spring 1739, when Bach was preparing a new performance of the Johannes-Passion, he also decided to make a fair copy of the work, like he had done before with the Matthäus-Passion. But then he was told by the city's super intendant to cancel the performance and Bach immediately quit working on the fair copy, answering the town council that it was nothing but trouble anyway and that he didn't care, even though this passion had been performed a couple of times before without objections.
I think that incidents like this 'cured' Bach of his desire to compose Kirchen Musick and that he was fed up with all the problems. That's why he returned to more secular music during the last decade of his life. But still In Nomine Jesu and Soli Deo Gloria.

[Sean]

Marc

An interesting read. Whether Leusink would describe his project as minimalist I've no idea but there are indeed a few parallels with last century's minimalist movement, particularly in exhaustive explorations of the possibilities of limited sets of material in a defined idiom or form.

Leusink isn't a businessman, that's not a serious suggestion, he's an artist and scholar who was employed by Brilliant classics.

And the boy in Cantata 52 here with Leonhardt for instance is pretty bad, poor guy- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDJwqrri130

Note that who is Standard English in all usage, but you can use whom if it helps clarify...

All art is aesthetic, and therefore beyond the intellect or reason, and therefore transcendental and of the divine.

[Sean]

[Sean]

I also promise to listen to a little more Suzuki and Koopman.

[Marc]

Marc
[....]
Leusink isn't a businessman, that's not a serious suggestion, he's an artist and scholar [....]

You seem to know him very well.

My guess is, if you told this to him, he might be seriously offended by calling him not a businessman.

And back here in the Netherlands no one would take that seriously. There is no more commercial classical music artist in this country than he, with the exception of André Rieu. No offense meant by the way, and it's the old-fashioned merchant way of thinking and living around here.

In a relatively short time, Leusink has become a millionaire, mainly thanks to Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Verdi and the lot. He's giving around 150 concerts each year, mainly consisting of the Great Choral Hits that are cherished by so many people. No government subvention needed for him, he's able to pay all singers and instrumentalists himself.

And yes, I agree he's an artist, and, in his way of presenting his stuff, also very spectacular (showman conducting) and commercial. If you see a large page ad in a Dutch newspaper promoting a classical concert, it's almost a 100% chance it's about a concert of Leusink's crew, now called the Bach Choir and Orchestra.

But I doubt very much if he's a scholar. He's had organ and conducting lessons at the Zwolle conservatory and attended choir conducting masterclasses given by David Willcocks. That's all.

Anyway, from what I saw and heard from him so far (on disc, Dutch telly or radio) I'm far from impressed.
But that's just my tuppence worth.

And the boy in Cantata 52 here with Leonhardt for instance is pretty bad, poor guy- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDJwqrri130

He's certainly not slick and perfect and he's lisping, but his voice isn't bad at all and IMO he's much more expressive than f.i. Ruth Holton, and I happen to like that. It's mainly because of this that the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt set is still my favourite cantatas integral after all those years.

[DaveF]

The more controversial figure I'd say is the countertenor Sytse Buwalda

Yeah, I'd forgotten him - perhaps a bargain-counter counter-tenor.  Even Ramselaar, who has a pleasant enough voice, isn't up to extreme technical demands - the "Storm" aria in BWV.46, perhaps the most difficult bass aria of all, takes him 4 minutes against less than 3 for Hans-Friedrich Kunz with Leonhardt.  This may be a purely interpretative decision, but I suspect he just can't sing it any faster.

[Ken B]

You seem to know him very well.

My guess is, if you told this to him, he might be seriously offended by calling him not a businessman.

And back here in the Netherlands no one would take that seriously. There is no more commercial classical music artist in this country than he, with the exception of André Rieu. No offense meant by the way, and it's the old-fashioned merchant way of thinking and living around here.

In a relatively short time, Leusink has become a millionaire, mainly thanks to Bach, Mozart, Brahms, Verdi and the lot. He's giving around 150 concerts each year, mainly consisting of the Great Choral Hits that are cherished by so many people. No government subvention needed for him, he's able to pay all singers and instrumentalists himself.

And yes, I agree he's an artist, and, in his way of presenting his stuff, also very spectacular (showman conducting) and commercial. If you see a large page ad in a Dutch newspaper promoting a classical concert, it's almost a 100% chance it's about a concert of Leusink's crew, now called the Bach Choir and Orchestra.

But I doubt very much if he's a scholar. He's had organ and conducting lessons at the Zwolle conservatory and attended choir conducting masterclasses given by David Willcocks. That's all.

Anyway, from what I saw and heard from him so far (on disc, Dutch telly or radio) I'm far from impressed.
But that's just my tuppence worth.

He's certainly not slick and perfect and he's lisping, but his voice isn't bad at all and IMO he's much more expressive than f.i. Ruth Holton, and I happen to like that. It's mainly because of this that the Leonhardt/Harnoncourt set is still my favourite cantatas integral after all those years.

Very interesting. Vive Leusink! If he can make music a thriving business, sans subsidies, that's wonderful.

[Marc]

Very interesting. Vive Leusink! If he can make music a thriving business, sans subsidies, that's wonderful.

Yeah.
Just dress up a choir of men as nuns, and your promotion will certainly cause a sell-out.





Ton Koopman, Sigiswald Kuijken: behold, your petit bands can be saved!

[Sean]

Marc, I've read an interview of Leusink's and one or two short articles about him, and I know his cantatas recordings quite well. From this I can indeed see he's a musician, but if like Karajan, and like all other conductors, he also makes money out of it I guess that's irrelevant to the quality of what he does.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on all this, and I don't want to downplay other surveys too much.

However the ideas about the Leusink being inconsistent can much better be applied to the competition, due to the greater time spans they required.

DaveF Sure thing.

[Marc]

Marc, I've read an interview of Leusink's and one or two short articles about him, and I know his cantatas recordings quite well. From this I can indeed see he's a musician, but if like Karajan, and like all other conductors, he also makes money out of it I guess that's irrelevant to the quality of what he does.

Of course. It's what he delivers, the way he does it is far less interesting.
I was just reacting to your 'claim' that Leusink ain't no businessman, but an artist and scholar, that's all.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on all this, and I don't want to downplay other surveys too much.

I'm happy, hope you're happy too.
I've loved all I've needed to love.
Sordid details following.



Happy Easter!

[prémont]

And back here in the Netherlands no one would take that seriously. There is no more commercial classical music artist in this country than he, with the exception of André Rieu. No offense meant by the way, and it's the old-fashioned merchant way of thinking and living around here.

Leusink´s cantata set was recorded 15 years ago, maybe he has degenerated since then. At least I do not hear any "businessman" in the interpretations, not more than in recordings by e.g. Koopman or Gardiner. And I do not intend to detract from artists, because they make their music making a way of living. It is after all their profession. I am more intrigued by the statement, that Leusink isn´t a scholar, butI restrict myself to note that he fakes very well.

[Marc]

Leusink´s cantata set was recorded 15 years ago, maybe he has degenerated since then. At least I do not hear any "businessman" in the interpretations, not more than in recordings by e.g. Koopman or Gardiner. And I do not intend to detract from artists, because they make their music making a way of living. It is after all their profession.

As I wrote earlier, I was only reacting to Sean who suggested that Leusink wasn't a business man.
Well, he is a business man, and a mighty succesfull one, too.

I am more intrigued by the statement, that Leusink isn´t a scholar, but I restrict myself to note that he fakes very well.

Well all rite then , if someone with a conservatory certificate for organ playing and who received conducting lessons from Gottfried van der Horst is a scholar, then Leusink is a scholar. I'm fine with that.

But I have a different opinion about his Bach performances than others, apparantly. Again, to me it sounds like the rushed project it was, all for the sake of Kruidvat (a large Dutch drugstore company who sponsored the Bach Brilliant project back in 1999/2000), Brilliant and making quick money. As the Kruidvat director said in a Dutch telly program in 2000 (hosted by Paul Witteman, member of the Andriessen family, and witer/Bach lover Maarten 't  Hart): "As much as I like the idea of giving ordinary people the opportunity to buy the complete Bach together with their pills and perfumes, I'm mainly in this to make good profit." (And why not?)

But maybe, if Leusink (and especially his singers) would have been given more time, and autumn 2000 had not been the strict (commercially inspired) deadline, the result would have been more satisfying, even to me.

[prémont]

But maybe, if Leusink (and especially his singers) would have been given more time, and autumn 2000 had not been the strict (commercially inspired) deadline, the result would have been more satisfying, even to me.

I certainly do not disagree about this, and I also prefer Leonhardt/Harnoncourt, Gardiner, Herreweghe et.c. to Leusink, but you know: To a completist no recording is superfluous, and I find much to enjoy in Leusink´s Bach after all, maybe in the first hand the instrumental contributions.

[Sean]

Marc

Happy Easter!

No proselytization!

You'll have Bach's spirit vomiting.

[Marc]

I certainly do not disagree about this, and I also prefer Leonhardt/Harnoncourt, Gardiner, Herreweghe et.c. to Leusink, but you know: To a completist no recording is superfluous, and I find much to enjoy in Leusink´s Bach after all, maybe in the first hand the instrumental contributions.

Poor Premont the completist.

Of course there are things to enjoy in Leusink's set.
I just dislike some of the voices, IMO there's too much superficiality with some insecure singers and I definitely don't like the uneven and often unpleasant choir sound.

Anyway, I listened to BWV 54 (Widerstehe doch der Sünde) this morning, inspired by Mandryka's recommendation.
Despite a small problem with the balance between voice and instruments in the first aria, I think it's a good performance. Again, with bargain-counter counter-tenor Buwalda singing like a man who knows what he's singing about. But then came BWV 44 and after 10 seconds of Knut Schoch I decided to switch off.

[Jo498]

Apparently Bach himself gave as one reason for the move to Leipzig that his sons would receive a better education there because they could attend university.
In any case, the "Bach Atheist" essay (which I didn't finish) is really utter nonsense, largely at odds with everything we know about Bach and the religious attitudes and institutions of his time. (For one early and obvious error in this text, the protestant churches were by no means powers "absolute" or independent from the "worldly" powers.)

[Sean]

Okay Jo. The article is kind-of funny though.