Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[ahinton]

But changing the overall size of a parliament has absolutely nothing to do with gerrymandering.

Indeed it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that playing around with electoral constituency boundaries in order to achieve electoral advantage for the party that implements them is in principle (or rather lack thereof!) a cynically self-interested ploy.

[Karl Henning]

Well I agree Trump is not the right guy. And I am afraid people will learn that in due course. But he won because he tried. Remember when he was roundly mocked for saying he loves the poorly educated? I don't hear any of that mockery now.

I don't read that as mockery of the poorly educated.  What was being mocked was El viejo naranja's naked cynicism.

Per this.

[ahinton]

Nor is it "always the case", having been through ones in Australia that haven't had any such effect.

I didn't suggest that it always works in the way that the govenment that implements such changes might hope and wish, for there are no guarantees in political life; the mere fact of an action and the intent behind it having its roots in a cynical self-interested ploy does not necessarily mean that it will succeed as hoped.

[Karl Henning]

I don't believe for a minute he loves the poorly educated, any more than I believed him when he said the Bible was his favorite book. (We haven't heard that one for a while, have we?) I believe he's been able to talk a good con game. And people will learn that in good (golf) course.

"I'm religious. The Evangelicals like me."

[71 dB]

Actually in the end she narrowly lost the popular vote too. But just narrowly.

I read she got 1.3 % more votes, but those figures must have been too early. Doesn't make a difference.

[mc ukrneal]

Actually in the end she narrowly lost the popular vote too. But just narrowly.

In the numbers I am looking at, she is still ahead in the total vote by 0.1%, but perhaps you are seeing an updated number? In any case, it doesn't change anything.

[Karl Henning]

Congratulations. I hope you were right for all our sake.

EDIT: I do not hope he is right about Trump winning. I hope he is right about Trump being the better choice in this election.

That's how I read you.  We have no reason to doubt El viejo naranja's word.

[Madiel]

Indeed it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that playing around with electoral constituency boundaires in order to achieve electoral advantage for the party that implements them is a cynically self-interesed ploy.

Yes, and that doesn't change the facts that (1) you can't equate changing the size of a parliament with "playing around with electoral consistuency boundaries" in a gerrymander, and (2) the very notion of "the party that implements them" presupposes that the current government has control of such a process. The entire point of independent commissions is that this isn't true.

[Karl Henning]

Maybe. I personally like him far more than Clinton. But even if he could overcome the S-word, I'm not sure that "let's be more like Denmark" would really play well in the general.

That's the now-imponderable.  He did not suffer at all from the "unfavorable" ratings of either Clinton or El viejo naranja;  but we also haven't had the stress-test of hearing the Fox commentators bandy the S-word about for months' worth of a general election.

[ahinton]

Input "US election" into Google and the first thing that you see is

Search Results
2016 US election results
Updated 09-Nov-2016 12:30 GMT
Live
Donald Trump won the presidency
Clinton
218
Trump
276
59,088,437 votes58,955,617 votes
270 to win

Won
Leads
97% reporting
   
Votes
Donald Trump
Republican Party
   
48%
58,955,617
Hillary Clinton
Democratic Party
   
48%
59,088,437
Gary Johnson
Libertarian Party
   
3%
3,998,147
Jill Stein
Green Party
   
1%
1,190,169
Other candidates   
0.7%
788,306
Republicans won the US Senate
Democrats
47
Republicans
51
51 to win majority
Republicans won the US House
Democrats
191
Republicans
236
218 to win majority
Sources: AP


According to this, Clinton did have more votes than Trump.

[Karl Henning]

Do you think the other way would ever have happened?

No;  short of an electoral college blowout against him, he would have whined and smeared and dug his heels in.

[ahinton]

Yes, and that doesn't change the facts that (1) you can't equate changing the size of a parliament with "playing around with electoral consistuency boundaries" in a gerrymander

I know; I didn't!

and (2) the very notion of "the party that implements them" presupposes that the current government has control of such a process. The entire point of independent commissions is that this isn't true.

That depends upon the extent to which you believe in such "independence" in practice; the Boundaries Commission cannot implement boundary changes on its own - only government can do that.

[Florestan]

El viejo naranja

Why not El Tupe anymore? 

[Karl Henning]

Why not El Tupe anymore? 

Thought I'd mix it up    A tweet by a Spanish speaker which I read early today used El viejo naranja, and I like it 

[(poco) Sforzando]

In the numbers I am looking at, she is still ahead in the total vote by 0.1%, but perhaps you are seeing an updated number? In any case, it doesn't change anything.

No, actually the numbers I saw about an hour ago gave him the popular, but the latest numbers give it to her. So much for a "mandate."

[Karl Henning]

No, actually the numbers I saw about an hour ago gave him the popular, but the latest numbers give it to her. So much for a "mandate."

The facts may not matter.  Why would he not claim a mandate?  Wouldn't be the craziest claim he's made.

[mc ukrneal]

Input "US election" into Google and the first thing that you see is

Search Results
2016 US election results
Updated 09-Nov-2016 12:30 GMT
Live
Donald Trump won the presidency
Clinton
218
Trump
276
59,088,437 votes58,955,617 votes
270 to win

Won
Leads
97% reporting
   
Votes
Donald Trump
Republican Party
58,955,617
48%

Hillary Clinton
Democratic Party
   
48%
59,088,437
Gary Johnson
Libertarian Party
   
3%
3,998,147
Jill Stein
Green Party
   
1%
1,190,169
Other candidates   
0.7%
788,306
Republicans won the US Senate
Democrats
47
Republicans
51
51 to win majority
Republicans won the US House
Democrats
191
Republicans
236
218 to win majority
Sources: AP


According to this, Clinton did have more votes than Trump.

Actually, according to Google (and what you posted), Clinton is ahead 59,088,437 to 58,955,617 (although the numbers keep updating).

[Karl Henning]

Actually, according to Google (and what you posted), Clinton is ahead 59,088,437 to 58,955,617 (although the numbers keep updating).

Aye, the live feed at the online Washington Post likewise shows Clinton at a slender 0.1% advantage in the popular vote.

[André]

There will be an american tourists boom to Russia and China.

[Florestan]

I wonder where is Brian. I could use a cold strong beer, or two.