Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[drogulus]

   

If you were presented with a bowl of 500 candies and were told that only two have poison, would you eat any of them? The need for vetting is not theoretical after 9/11 and all the other atrocities, that have pockmarked our modern history.

     We do vet the "candies". We will continue to vet them, we have to. The question is will we accept refugees after we vet them. I think we should. ISIS thinks it should act to keep their victims in place, too scared of the consequences to escape, and they will also try to seed the stream of refugees with terrorists to get our help in closing the escape routes.

[North Star]

Did God tell the US to go to war in Iraq? George Dubya for all practical purposes didn't seem to be a religious man anyway.

How much anything has been influenced by the religion you associate with is apparently determined by how well you approve of the person and their actions.

As for an 'attack' on Planned Parenthood, who's killing whom?

I know nobody is going to convince you on this, and somehow I still am astonished that you approve of terrorism (obviously the people working for a cause you don't agree with are monsters that had it coming), while you call all who voted for Clinton Bolsheviks.

If you were presented with a bowl of 500 candies and were told that only two have poison, would you eat any of them? The need for vetting is not theoretical after 9/11 and all the other atrocities, that have pockmarked our modern history.

So what you're saying is that Muslims deserve as much rights as candy?

[zamyrabyrd]

Human beings are certiinly not pieces of candy....Just remember that you (whatever your background) may be seen excatly the same way by someone "vetting" in the future. But that would be wrong, wouldn't it...

The groups I belong to are not threatening anyone, one of which happens to be "musician".

[ritter]

The groups I belong to are not threatening anyone, one of which happens to be "musician".

Once again, you revert to "groups", not to individuals... Who knows, perhaps there are some of rapists among musicians?

[kishnevi]

The problem of immigration from fundamentally different cultures to the West is non-assimilation. The hardworking first generation usually doesn't have time for religious and political fundamentalism. The second generation is the more problematic one, not feeling a real identification with the host country or with the values of their parents. This is the breeding ground of born-again radicalists.

My grandparents immigrated from Italy to the US in the 1920's. There was no question of not totally embracing the values of the new country. They had to learn a minimum of English to be able to recite the Allegiance to the Flag before being accepted as citizens. My parents' generation was the problematic one, full of unresolved cultural conflicts but still they served in the WWII. I had many opportunities to speak with third generationers such as myself whose parents came from Russia and other countries who seemed to have had the same cultural conflicts. To be an "immigrant" in the 1930's and 40's was still an unenviable condition, betraying one's origin by opening one's mouth. There were still quotas against Jews in universities and country clubs, etc., into the 50's for instance.

In effect every wave of immigration or minority have had to prove themselves before acceptance. My grandparents and those like them did have not perks or privileges, just the opposite. It is completely goofy for a host country not only to have to accommodate itself to the cultural and religious differences of the guests but be hostages to violence, rape and murder.

By that line of thinking,  Italians should not have been allowed as immigrants because of the existence of the Mafia.

[Karl Henning]

I think you´ve made your point very clear now.

Or, she's repeated an unsavory point which was echoed earlier by Trump Jr in a tweet.

[zamyrabyrd]

How much anything has been influenced by the religion you associate with is apparently determined by how well you approve of the person and their actions.
I know nobody is going to convince you on this, and somehow I still am astonished that you approve of terrorism (obviously the people working for a cause you don't agree with are monsters that had it coming), while you call all who voted for Clinton Bolsheviks.
So what you're saying is that Muslims deserve as much rights as candy?

Going backwards, what "rights" do people have in countries other than their own?
Where and how can anyone accuse me of condoning terrorism after I just said I am against it?
The Bolshies are out on the streets. Anyone want to claim them?
Saddam Hussein was regarded more as a secular leader. He left Christians and Jews alone for the most part. The Kurds and Iranians whom he didn't mind killing, technically belonged to his religion.

[North Star]

Going backwards, what "rights" do people have in countries other than their own?

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

[zamyrabyrd]

By that line of thinking,  Italians should not have been allowed as immigrants because of the existence of the Mafia.

Oh sure, the Mafia went around blowing up buildings, attacking civilians with knives, shooting up places of entertainment with women and children in them. The cruelty perpetrated is on an entirely different level, the last horror happening in Nice with an "ice cream" truck mowing down and killing 80 or so people. There are simply too many atrocities to remember or list. The last one usually obliterates the memory of the one before.
The statistics of rape in places like Germany and Sweden by migrants (supposed to be mainly poor women and children fleeing from war zones) is something incredible.

[zamyrabyrd]

http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

What happens when one person's "rights" conflicts with another's?

Article 3.
Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

Article 17.
(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

Article 21.
(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

[North Star]

Oh sure, the Mafia went around blowing up buildings, attacking civilians with knives, shooting up places of entertainment with women and children in them. The cruelty perpetrated is on an entirely different level, the last horror happening in Nice with an "ice cream" truck mowing down and killing 80 or so people. There are simply too many atrocities to remember or list. The last one usually obliterates the memory of the one before.
The statistics of rape in places like Germany and Sweden by migrants (supposed to be mainly poor women and children fleeing from war zones) is something incredible.

Since you like statistics, here's number of deaths of by terrorism in the US and of US citizens in foreign soil, vs deaths by gun violence in the US.
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

[drogulus]

     The Muslim world has not yet evolved to the point the Christian world has since the Thirty Years War. Millions of Christians died in that war, from massacres, disease and starvation. In England we got a tripartite settlement as a first step towards a secular government, a balancing of the church, king and aristocracy, and a Parliament of the new class of bankers, shopkeepers, merchants and artisans. In America we eventually got formal secularization and the tripartite arrangement was kept as the legislative, executive and judicial branches of government.

     If it takes as long for the Muslims to reach modernity as it did for Christians they have a couple of centuries to go. While they can be inspired by the example of the West they will have to generate modernism out of their own history. In the meantime we'll help take Mosul and Raqqa, fighting against the worst at the side of the not as bad.

     Apart from the sheer fascination of it, you study history to discover the major themes of the civilizations you study and what's common and different in them. I do that, anyway.

[mc ukrneal]

Oh sure, the Mafia went around blowing up buildings, attacking civilians with knives, shooting up places of entertainment with women and children in them. The cruelty perpetrated is on an entirely different level...

Er. Um. They did. And they paid off judges and police and all sorts of people/officials to get away with it too.

[Karl Henning]

Er. Um. They did. And they paid off judges and police and all sorts of people/officials to get away with it too.

The wilful blindness is staggering.

[Karl Henning]

Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Rybakov contradicts El Tupé, and avers that "there were contacts" with the then-candidate's team.

But, why would El Tupé say anything other than the truth of the matter?

[Que]

Oh sure, the Mafia went around blowing up buildings, attacking civilians with knives, shooting up places of entertainment with women and children in them. The cruelty perpetrated is on an entirely different level, the last horror happening in Nice with an "ice cream" truck mowing down and killing 80 or so people. There are simply too many atrocities to remember or list. The last one usually obliterates the memory of the one before.
The statistics of rape in places like Germany and Sweden by migrants (supposed to be mainly poor women and children fleeing from war zones) is something incredible.

The crimes by the Italian Mafia in the US are hardly worth mentioning,  that's hilarious..... 
I would be surprised if the death toll by Italian Mafia in the US alone is even remotely approximated by the number of American deaths caused by terrorist acts by Muslim extremists.

Anyway, I hope you didn't vote for Trump.... because he is probably not going to keep his promise to you:

Donald Trump's Muslim ban statement removed from website

ASHLEY EDWARDS

Nov 10th 2016 10:30AM

Less than 24 hours after Republican Donald Trump was elected president of the United States, his statement calling for a "total and complete shutdown" of Muslims entering the U.S. mysteriously vanished from his campaign website.

In the Dec. 7, 2015, statement Trump, pointed to polling data that suggested 25 percent of Muslims support violence against Americans: "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anyone the hatred is beyond comprehension."

But, without explanation, the signature campaign message is no longer on the president-elect's website, and the page where it once was now redirects to a donation page.

http://www.aol.com/article/2016/11/10/donald-trumps-muslim-ban-statement-removed-from-website/21603226/

Q

[zamyrabyrd]

The wilful blindness is staggering.

You say Mafia violence equals the destruction of the World Trade Center with 2996 dead, 6000+ wounded, on the same day a plane flew into the Pentagon killing 184, Ft. Hood, 13 dead, 31 wounded, the Boston Massacre 3 dead, 264 wounded some of whom with horrible injuries, more recently Orlando with 49 dead, San Bernadino 14, and that's only the US? In Europe, 35 killed in Brussels 6 months ago, the Bastille day horror killing 86, 202 wounded two atrocities a year ago in Paris killing 34 altogether, This list doesn't count the potshots, the single stabbings, beheadings or knifings. Russia got their share in 2010 and 2013, not to mention Israel but also Islamic states in which Christians are being routinely persecuted and also killed. It doesn't include the ruination of property, the pain of bereaved families. What's staggering are the numbers that are far beyond the scope of this discussion.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4291/here-your-complete-list-islamic-terror-attacks-aaron-bandler

I don't get it. Who is blind? Are we speaking the same language or what?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Breaking that promise is a good thing, and I expect he will distance himself form some of his more toxic comments - also a good thing. 

Scott Adams (who has been almost always right about Trump) thinks so too:

"You can expect him to adjust his tone and language going forward. You can expect foreign leaders to say they can work with him. You can expect him to focus on unifying an exhausted and nervous country. And you can expect him to succeed in doing so. (He's persuasive.) Watch as Trump turns to healing. You're going to be surprised how well he does it."

We can only hope.

[Parsifal]

You say Mafia violence equals the destruction of the World Trade Center with 2996 dead, 6000+ wounded, on the same day a plane flew into the Pentagon killing 184, Ft. Hood, 13 dead, 31 wounded, the Boston Massacre 3 dead, 264 wounded some of whom with horrible injuries, more recently Orlando with 49 dead, San Bernadino 14, and that's only the US? In Europe, 35 killed in Brussels 6 months ago, the Bastille day horror killing 86, 202 wounded two atrocities a year ago in Paris killing 34 altogether, This list doesn't count the potshots, the single stabbings, beheadings or knifings. Russia got their share in 2010 and 2013, not to mention Israel but also Islamic states in which Christians are being routinely persecuted and also killed. It doesn't include the ruination of property, the pain of bereaved families. What's staggering are the numbers that are far beyond the scope of this discussion.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4291/here-your-complete-list-islamic-terror-attacks-aaron-bandler

I don't get it. Who is blind? Are we speaking the same language or what?

What is staggering is that people think that islamic terrorism is unrelated to the fact that the invasion of Iraq resulted in the violent deaths of 600,000 people in Iraq (according to the Lancet). The terrorists acts committed by islamic terrorists are committed by people who have been persuaded that they are fighting the same war.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Scott Adams (who has been almost always right about Trump) thinks so too:

"You can expect him to adjust his tone and language going forward. You can expect foreign leaders to say they can work with him. You can expect him to focus on unifying an exhausted and nervous country. And you can expect him to succeed in doing so. (He's persuasive.) Watch as Trump turns to healing. You're going to be surprised how well he does it."

We can only hope.

Ass-kisser in chief Rudy Giuliani is already turning to healing: "the former New York City mayor and a high-profile Trump supporter, said the demonstrators were 'a bunch of spoiled cry-babies.'" I feel so unified. So healed. So surprised.