Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[zamyrabyrd]

Well, I was actually presuming zb's hostility to Islam.  Still, I appreciate your post.

Oh gosh, Karl, I have lived around Muslims and taught many of them, also speak their language enough to be able to read some of their scriptures.
Moslems can give the West lessons in respect, family values, hospitality and modesty, Many if not most are very fine people.
Now that is out of way, the problem today is with Islamism and cultural shock around Western so-called values.
A lot of what they are exposed to comes from racy TV and films, so they often have skewed ideas about what to expect when they get to Germany, France or Sweden.
If men are sequestered from the women folk in their home countries, it's understandable they go bizerk around scantily clad women in the West. That is not an excuse but an explanation.
The radicalized ones see a clash of cultures and prefer to go backward rather than forward.
They see the corruption of the West, the dying gasps of Christianity that couldn't save its own culture and look to Islam for salvation. 
People who are half educated (including literalists in the Bible Belt or other types of zealots) do not see the larger picture and do take their scriptures literally.
One can be accommodating to actual refugees (not going into who wrecked their countries to begin with) but not suicidal.

[North Star]

And what does this have to do with Donald Trump?

Why, I recall that it's his favourite book.

[zamyrabyrd]

And what does this have to do with Donald Trump?

To sum up, Trump has been smeared with being anti-Islam when he said immigrants from war zones need to be vetted. Modern terrorism is almost always now Islamist. Saying there is no connection to their actual scriptures is incorrect when they admit to that themselves.

[arpeggio]

There are a few facts that Trumpsters have to realize (and from looking at the above they are oblivious to these).

One, Hellery won the popular vote.  Since 1988 Republicans only won one the popular vote in one presidential election, 2004.  We gave Bush, Jr. another chance and he blew it.

Two, the Republicans lost two seats in the senate.  There is a chance they will lose a third.  There will be a run-off for the third in Louisiana but since the Democratic party no longer exists in the South. 

Virginia where I live is the weird exception.  Virginia is a microcosm of the county.  In the urban areas Hellery won big.  In Fairfax county she won by over thirty points.  She also won big in the University areas like Albemarle Count, the home of the University of Virginia.  She won by 25 points there.

And before the people with fourteen degrees brag about voting for Trump you are in a very small universe.  The one population base that Trump dominated is uneducated what males.  These are people who know what county music is but can not tell the difference between Bach and the Beatles.  There are probably a few who do.

Third, the last time the Republicans controlled all of the branches of the government was between 2001 and 2007.  Let us look at some for their accomplishments.

One, we suffered the worst attack against us since Pearl Harbor.  And like Pearl Harbor it could have been avoided.  The Clinton administration tried to warn the Bush but they ignored their warnings.

Two, we got involved with two unwinnable wars that killed over 5,000 and wounded another 50,000 Americans.  That is OK but if one ambassador gets killed that is a no, no.

Third, we had a financial crisis that almost destroyed our economy.  Ironically, from what I have read, one of Bush, Jr's. few accomplishments is how helped to help to keep the situation from getting worse that it did.

Fourth, under Bush 2 we started with a surplus, and ended up with the worse deficit in our country's history:



The lesson is obvious: Democratic deficits, bad; Republican, good.

For all of our sakes I pray to the invisible man in the sky (and I hope he is real) that Trump is successful.  The Republicans have complete control of the government and if they fail they can not blame anybody but themselves.  Of course it is still going to be amusing to hear their excuses. 

[Todd]

Did Clinton alienate the majority?

Yes, she alienated a significant enough portion of the white electorate - whites being the ethnic majority in the US - to sway the election.  You post indicates part of the problem on the left - and more importantly the American left - in coming to grips with reality.  And Clinton did not win a majority of votes, either.  She won the narrowest of popular pluralities.

As to turnout, a record number voted in 2016, though the percentage was down slightly.  It is worth noting that Clinton still managed to lose between 18 and 33% of Hispanic voters, depending on which analysis one looks at, and the black male vote dropped from around 97% for Obama to somewhere closer to 88% for Clinton.  This drop is not attributable to the supposed restriction of the vote.  It was the candidate and message.  Words have consequences.  You don't get to call people deplorables or super-predators without consequence.

[Todd]

There are a few facts that Trumpsters have to realize (and from looking at the above they are oblivious to these).

One, Hellery won the popular vote.  Since 1988 Republicans only won one the popular vote in one presidential election, 2004.  We gave Bush, Jr. another chance and he blew it.

Two, the Republicans lost two seats in the senate.  There is a chance they will lose a third.  There will be a run-off for the third in Louisiana but since the Democratic party no longer exists in the South. 

Hillary won a small plurality of the popular vote, but not the electoral college.  She won the wrong election.  That's her fault.

For months, the press and the Clinton campaign were talking about taking the Senate.  For a brief, giddy period, there was talk of Dems taking the House.  The data the Democrats used was bad.  They lost the presidency.  And as Pat B points out in another thread, 2018 looks very bad for Dems in the Senate.

One can point out these realities and still dislike Trump.  I did not vote for him, for instance.  I loathed all four national candidates and did not vote for one.  Some people, though, see only simple binary choices.  If one dislikes Clinton, that means they support Trump.  That sort of illogic.

[Madiel]

Words have consequences.  You don't get to call people deplorables or super-predators without consequence.

But Trump called people all manner of things. It cuts both ways. Or apparently it doesn't.

[Todd]

But Trump called people all manner of things. It cuts both ways. Or apparently it doesn't.

Yes, he did.  But he didn't attack the racial majority.  He courted them.  I would think the obvious was obvious by now, but I guess not. 

[Madiel]

Yes, he did.  But he didn't attack the racial majority.  He courted them.  I would think the obvious was obvious by now, but I guess not.

You know, for someone who complains about people being condescending, you're being remarkably condescending. And I'm actually trying to engage with you and the points you're making.

[Todd]

You know, for someone who complains about people being condescending, you're being remarkably condescending. And I'm actually trying to engage with you and the points you're making.

Perhaps you misinterpreted my response to arpeggio as a complaint about condescension.  It was a complaint about illogic and false binary choices.  I actually find leftist condescension the most enjoyable of all since it offers so much to challenge.  In the US, the Democrats must learn some lessons from this debacle.  I offered three lessons.  There are others.  People who run their campaigns will actually consider all of the things I wrote, though not because I wrote them.  They want to win, to gain power again.  They ought not to repeat what they just did.

[(poco) Sforzando]

You know, for someone who complains about people being condescending, you're being remarkably condescending. And I'm actually trying to engage with you and the points you're making.

You don't get it, ørfeo: Todd's specialty, his whole raison d'être apparently, is to tell everyone else how stupid and uninformed they are, and how only Todd is in possession of the facts and any proper understanding of them. It's not about the issues, but all about Todd. Having said that, your best move is simply not to engage with him. It's an eternal gotcha game where you can never win.

[Todd]

You don't get it, ørfeo: Todd's specialty, his whole raison d'être apparently, is to tell everyone else how stupid and uninformed they are, and how only Todd is in possession of the facts and any proper understanding of them. It's not about the issues, but all about Todd. Having said that, your best move is simply not to engage with him. It's an eternal gotcha game where you can never win.

You're an interesting fella.  You used to be more self-controlled, but over the course of this election, you've lost your shit, rather like Richard Engel on election night.  You're one of the most entertaining of all posters on any forum I frequent.  Keep it up!

[(poco) Sforzando]

You're an interesting fella.  You used to be more self-controlled, but over the course of this election, you've lost your shit, rather like Richard Engel on election night.  You're one of the most entertaining of all posters on any forum I frequent.  Keep it up!

Like Pooh-Bah, you were born sneering. So predictable . . . .

[Todd]

Like Pooh-Bah, you were born sneering. So predictable . . . .

It's like watching a cat chase a laser-pointer.

[Madiel]

"You pull my trigger then you blame my gun."

- Fiona Apple

[Todd]

"You pull my trigger then you blame my gun."

- Fiona Apple

Ms Apple should meet Milo Yiannopoulos.

[Madiel]

Ms Apple should meet Milo Yiannopoulos.

I'm aware of his work. I'm not sure anyone should be required to meet him.

There's an ethical difference between saying something that is annoying and saying it for the pure purpose of being annoying. The emotions of others are not mere playthings for entertainment. Not unless you think other human beings are just here for your amusement.

[Florestan]

The one population base that Trump dominated is uneducated what males.  These are people who know what county music is but can not tell the difference between Bach and the Beatles.

That's completely irrelevant. For one, the worth of a human being does not depend on what kind of music s/he likes or knows about. Secondly, I know people who can tell the difference even between Bach JS and Bach JC and who voted Trump, or would have voted him had they been US citizens.

[Todd]

There's an ethical difference between saying something that is annoying and saying it for the pure purpose of being annoying. The emotions of others are not mere playthings for entertainment. Not unless you think other human beings are just here for your amusement.

Human beings in general?  No.  Lefties with no emotional self-control on internet forums?  Sometimes, but not always. 

[Madiel]

Human beings in general?  No.  Lefties with no emotional self-control on internet forums?  Sometimes, but not always.

You don't seem to have figured out that one of those categories is a subset of the other.