Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[Florestan]

Donald Trump Is Shocking, Vulgar and Right. And, my dear fellow Republicans, he's all your fault.

[Karl Henning]

"Thanks, Obama."

[drogulus]

     

The voters of Clark County, Washington have repeatedly voted against Metro expansion.

     What about fluoridation, creation science, concealed carry in schools and churches, is there a democratic position on each of these?

     Should undemocratic bridges be built? Most of them are undemocratic, most should be built. The Metro thing is an oddity that causes voters to get involved. Nobody cares how "undemocratic" our democratic bridge builders act most of the time. We have bridges, too. Someone built them. I'll vote for politicians that favor that, and then vote against them if they have the temerity to ask my permission.

     
   

[Florestan]

          What about fluoridation, creation science, concealed carry in schools and churches, is there a democratic position on each of these?

Of course there is. I can´t think of anything more democratic than a local community voting on what should be taught on the school which is financed on their money. Or the same community voting on whether they want or not their drinking water to be fluoridated.

The problem with (some part of) the Left, namely the statist Left, is their view of democracy: when the majority vote is in line with their ideology, then it is a triumph of the people; when the majority vote is against their ideology, then it is a triumph of the reaction and the vote must either be held again and again and again until the desired outcome obtains, in which case it is a triumph of the people, or, better still, disregarded altogether as irrelevant because some issues can´t possibly have a democratic position on each. IOW, democracy is good not per se, but only insofar as it helps pushing the agenda.

     Should undemocratic bridges be built? Most of them are undemocratic, most should be built.

I agree with that but then again I don´t pretend to be an unqualified democrat, nor do I sympathize, support or vote a party that called itself Democrat. 

I'll vote for politicians that favor that, and then vote against them if they have the temerity to ask my permission.    

IOW, you vote yourself into being told what´s good for you, accepting it and keeping your mouth shut. Three cheers for democracy!

[Florestan]

http://www.garynorth.com/public/14855.cfm

[snyprrr]

You people realize it's only mid-March, and the level of madness is clearly at record levels already.

Don't you think sooooooooomeone somewhere has bigBigBIG plans for this summer?



gulp, Ferdinand Moment??

[Scion7]

Those pesky Serbs at it again??

           

[André]

A most esteemed poster here on GMG is Serb... 

[Florestan]

A most esteemed poster here on GMG is Serb... 

Drasko, yes... unfortunately he hasn´t been posting for quite a long time...

[drogulus]

The problem with (some part of) the Left, namely the statist Left, is their view of democracy: when the majority vote is in line with their ideology, then it is a triumph of the people; when the majority vote is against their ideology, then it is a triumph of the reaction and the vote must either be held again and again and again until the desired outcome obtains, in which case it is a triumph of the people, or, better still, disregarded altogether as irrelevant because some issues can´t possibly have a democratic position on each. IOW, democracy is good not per se, but only insofar as it helps pushing the agenda.

     What do you think of the statist leftists who vote to repeal Obamacare 18,976 times?

     I don't think there a fixed number of times you are permitted to try to abolish slavery "undemocratically", or criminalize abortion, or adopt universal health care. Maybe the Obamacare votes just gives Red State morons something to do, like "look, Ma, I'm legislating!". Maybe it keeps them out of more serious trouble.

     I agree with that but then again I don´t pretend to be an unqualified democrat, nor do I sympathize, support or vote a party that called itself Democrat. 

      I don't pretend to be an unqualified democrat, so I sympathize with and support, in a qualified way, the party that calls itself Democratic.

IOW, you vote yourself into being told what´s good for you, accepting it and keeping your mouth shut. Three cheers for democracy!

      No such thing happens, I vote for what's good for me, having a general idea of what that is, and who best fits the bill. If I'm wrong, I'll vote differently the next time, if the pol is wrong, same thing.

[Pat B]

Of course there is. I can´t think of anything more democratic than a local community voting on what should be taught on the school which is financed on their money. Or the same community voting on whether they want or not their drinking water to be fluoridated.

The problem with (some part of) the Left, namely the statist Left, is their view of democracy: when the majority vote is in line with their ideology, then it is a triumph of the people; when the majority vote is against their ideology, then it is a triumph of the reaction and the vote must either be held again and again and again until the desired outcome obtains, in which case it is a triumph of the people, or, better still, disregarded altogether as irrelevant because some issues can´t possibly have a democratic position on each. IOW, democracy is good not per se, but only insofar as it helps pushing the agenda.

At the same time, the so-called conservatives who tout "states' rights" and "local control" when it comes to turning public schools into religious indoctrination centers, regulating abortion, or discriminating against gays (and going a bit further back, overt racism) are quick to overrule local ordinances that they don't like.

[drogulus]

At the same time, the so-called conservatives who tout "states' rights" and "local control" when it comes to turning public schools into religious indoctrination centers, regulating abortion, or discriminating against gays (and going a bit further back, overt racism) are quick to overrule local ordinances that they don't like.

    Don't states forbid local authorities from running their own internet services? Are these states acting on conservative principles about local control? No, it's probably property rights, so Comcast has a right to it's property, local subscribers to the state approved oligopoly. For every such abuse an abusive right can be found, count on it. The more abusive the practice, the more "principled" the argument. That's the way to go when the substantive argument goes against you. I tend to lead with substantive arguments about the desirability of programs from as neutral perspective as I can manage, and if I play dirty and allude to principles I frame it to get broad agreement, to convince others who aren't likely to agree out of the box. If that doesn't work, I call them names.

[Florestan]

     Red State morons

So much for your democratic allegiance. Anyone who doesn´t vote as you vote is a moron. Three hails for democracy!

      I don't pretend to be an unqualified democrat, so I sympathize with and support, in a qualified way, the party that calls itself Democratic.

Any party is undemocratic by definition. You can call yourself, sympathize with, and support, whatever party you want --- it doesn´t obscure the fact that what you basically mean and want is to force your worldview on anyone rejecting it by means of a majoritarian vote.

   

I vote for what's good for me, having a general idea of what that is, and who best fits the bill.

So does everybody else, including people who vote for Trump. If he wins, will you say it´s democracy in action?

[North Star]

Any party is undemocratic by definition. You can call yourself, sympathize with, and support, whatever party you want --- it doesn´t obscure the fact that what you basically mean and want is to force your worldview on anyone rejecting it by means of a majoritarian vote.

Ah, democracy, as defined by Florestan: monarchy. 

[drogulus]

So much for your democratic allegiance. Anyone who doesn´t vote as you vote is a moron. Three hails for democracy!

     The polite term is "low information voters". Did you know morons vote in a democracy? Do you think a democracy is or could be moron free? A properly run democracy educates its morons up to world beating standards. Optimally they don't even want to be Communo-Fascists!

     Oh, those Trump voters who are voting their interests just like me, does that mean they can't be morons? In a democracy everyone is unmoronic by act of Congress, the Constitution, what?

     

[André]

Almost 8 months left before Election Day. Keep your salvos 'til the end ! They might be needed if a rally for Democracy is needed. Otherwise we all might be trumped, Americans or "strangers" 

[drogulus]

      After a little housekeeping I return to my post as rabid partisan:



      Bill Clinton's odious presidency: Thomas Frank on the real history of the '90s

      Evaluating Clinton's presidency as heroic is no longer a given, however. After the bursting of the dot-com bubble in 2000, the corporate scandals of the Enron period, and the collapse of the real estate racket, our view of the prosperous Nineties has changed quite a bit. Now we remember that it was Bill Clinton's administration that deregulated derivatives, that deregulated telecom, and that put our country's only strong banking laws in the grave. He's the one who rammed the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) through Congress and who taught the world that the way you respond to a recession is by paying off the federal deficit. Mass incarceration and the repeal of welfare, two of Clinton's other major achievements, are the pillars of the disciplinary state that has made life so miserable for Americans in the lower reaches of society. He would have put a huge dent in Social Security, too, had the Monica Lewinsky sex scandal not stopped him. If we take inequality as our measure, the Clinton administration looks not heroic but odious.

     Pow!

[Florestan]

Ah, democracy, as defined by Florestan: monarchy. 

Monarchy and democracy are not mutually exclusive: ask your Swedish neighbours. Republic and democracy are not mutually connected: ask your Russian neighbours. 

     The polite term is "low information voters". Did you know morons vote in a democracy? Do you think a democracy is or could be moron free? A properly run democracy educates its morons up to world beating standards. Optimally they don't even want to be Communo-Fascists!

     Oh, those Trump voters who are voting their interests just like me, does that mean they can't be morons? In a democracy everyone is unmoronic by act of Congress, the Constitution, what? 

You call them morons. I call them  citizens just like you, with their own hopes and fears and with their own worldview.

[Turner]

Mashable has collected Trump´s calls for and appraisal of primitive, mob-like violence. As an outsider, one cannot but be repeatedly surprised by the level:

https://twitter.com/mashable/status/709472895651569664

[Johnll]

I certainly don't withdraw that. He is.

Good to see a professed conservative man up instead of run. Is it possible that poison is better ascribed to you and yours instead of your intended victim?