Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[drogulus]

     

That's what most governments do.  It's called deficit financing.

     Yes, exactly. The government deficit is viewed according to its function. What's it for? It's for economic balance, running the system so we don't get too much inflation or unemployment, growth instead of stagnation. It's what we do, and the MMT part is just explaining it. Government spending is the funding, it's not funded. Taxation remove the excess on the same principle as the spending is governed, you add first, then subtract, with inflation and recession as the boundaries. So MMT is just as aware of the real boundaries to spend/tax policy as the less aware formulations, they just remove the insolvency myth and leave operational reality as a guide. It shouldn't change things that much, though it could lead to victory over the budgeteers in an enlightened world. I have doubts, though, about what could lead to an enlightened world. Household budgeteering seems to be in the bloodstream, however false it is to the operations of the non-household sector.

[Brian]

That´s too catastrophic a scenario. Let´s keep it realistic: many in Iraq, Syria, Lybia and  Afghanistan want to move into Europe, and many, many more just do that.

Well, with projections saying that areas like Dubai will regularly be 125+ degrees for weeks at a time in 1-2 generations, it may simply not be possible to live there, unless they find a way to stay indoors 100% of the time (and save enough money to afford the electric bill).

True. But some of those in Texas, Miami and London would reap nothing else than what they sowed.

In most cases, it will be their children and grandchildren. The sins of the fathers will be visited on the sons and daughters who never had a chance to sow a thing.

[Todd]

and the MMT part is just explaining it.

No, it isn't.  That's wishful thinking, in the strict use of that phrase.

[Brian]

Here's my favorite climate projection interactive map. You can choose low or high emissions scenarios, which decade you want to see, and an approximate time of year to see what it'll be like in that season. Data comes from NASA.

http://climateinternational.org/

[Florestan]

Well, with projections saying that areas like Dubai will regularly be 125+ degrees for weeks at a time in 1-2 generations

I´ve never been too keen on Sci-Fi.

The sins of the fathers will be visited on the sons and daughters

Sounds like you´re quoting The Bible.

[Brian]

Sounds like you´re quoting The Bible.

Yes, I was

[Brian]

I´ve never been too keen on Sci-Fi.

I was being a dumb American and using Fahrenheit, sorry about that.  I did not mean 125° Celsius.

The record for Dubai is 49°. In August, the city already sees an average of 43°, and doing some Google News searching, I see the UAE hit 50° in June 2015 and 51.2° in August 2013. It is quite likely that in 50-60 years, Dubai will spend weeks at a time above 50° Celsius.

[drogulus]

No, it isn't.  That's wishful thinking, in the strict use of that phrase.

      My wishes don't come into it until later. I want any theory (or "theory") to work. If not spending to unbalance the economy was better than spending to balance it, that discovery would be a very significant one. The evidence does not support that path, hence the necessity for artificial constructions in practice and thought like an insolvency myth and debt limits. Stupid ideas compensate for the unfortunate tendency of the real world to behave otherwise. But the thing is, it's hard not to notice how stupid these ideas are. They're hardly worth the punishment to growth and prosperity they inflict for the pleasure of indulging intuitions. We could govern the economy along functional lines and the efficiency gains would certainly be worth it. Excess unemployment is inefficient, ignoring chronic low demand conditions and neglecting infrastructure investment is inefficient. It's waste, real waste, not the fantasy waste of deficits.

[Todd]

Here's my favorite climate projection interactive map. You can choose low or high emissions scenarios, which decade you want to see, and an approximate time of year to see what it'll be like in that season. Data comes from NASA.

http://climateinternational.org/

As a homeowner in Portland Metro area, I love this map!  Under high and low emission scenarios, my neck of the woods stays comfy.  More people will likely move here.  Combine that with the artificial scarcity of homes promoted by the local urban growth boundary, and my home should be worth a boatload of money when I retire.  I can sell it off and move to a cheaper location in northern Washington State or maybe Montana with money to spare.  Keep on pumpin' out emissions folks.  It's good for me.

(Of course, this requires that the inevitable Cascadia Subduction Zone quake doesn't hit in the interim and utterly destroy the region.  It will be worse than the big one in CA.)

My wishes don't come into it until later.

Of course they do.  You are peddling MMT like it's something other than a theory not embraced by the economics profession as a whole, and stating it is part of explaining deficit financing.  Deficit financing has been around for half a millennium.  It's basics are well known.  I get it, you're a convert, and you are earnest and enthusiastic in your support of your preferred theory.  There's nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make MMT something more than it is. 

[Florestan]

I did not mean 125° Celsius.

I am very well aware of that.

The record for Dubai is 49°. In August, the city already sees an average of 43°, and doing some Google News searching, I see the UAE hit 50° in June 2015 and 51.2° in August 2013. It is quite likely that in 50-60 years, Dubai will spend weeks at a time above 50° Celsius.

What was the average temperature in Dubai 100 years ago? 200 years ago? 300 years ago? 400 years ago? In the times of Muhammad? Earlier than Muhammad?

[Florestan]

Come to think of it Orban is another good example of a European Trump, in terms of policy

Here is the Constitution of Hungary adopted by the Hungarian Parliament during Orban´s being prime-minister. What articles do you take issues with, and why?

[North Star]

Here is the Constitution of Hungary adopted by the Hungarian Parliament during Orban´s being prime-minister. What articles do you take issues with, and why?

Here is the Fourth amendment of the Hungarian Constitution, and here are citings of criticism of it.

[Brian]

What was the average temperature in Dubai 100 years ago? 200 years ago? 300 years ago? 400 years ago? In the times of Muhammad? Earlier than Muhammad?

Um, who cares? Are you saying people should live in 50° heat all the time because maybe somebody 2000 years ago did, too?

[Florestan]

Here is the Fourth amendment of the Hungarian Constitution

And you object to this amendment because... because what?

[Brian]

Here is the Constitution of Hungary adopted by the Hungarian Parliament during Orban´s being prime-minister. What articles do you take issues with, and why?

I never mentioned the Constitution. You just want me to waste a bunch of time arguing with you. Orban's stance toward immigrants is one example of a Trump-Orban similarity which is clear without reading any constitutions.

[Brian]

And you object to this amendment because... because what?

Okay, I guess I will waste some time now cuz I'm trying to avoid work. But after this, I will do work, listen to music, plan a holiday, and generally not argue back.

I'm skimming North Star's link to the Fourth Amendment.
1. I object to the definition of marriage as being exclusively heterosexual.
2. I object to "Hungary shall also protect the institution of family..." because this is meaningless rhetoric with no use.
3. I object to the President's lack of a veto power.
4. Article 5, Section 2 contains some potentially alarming restrictions on free speech. "Violating another person's dignity" and "violating the dignity of the Hungarian nation" are very vague and I suspect certain powerful people will use this to prosecute their enemies for sedition or slander.
5. Why on earth should you be required to get a job in order to receive financial aid for college? Why is that in the Constitution?

I stopped at page 6. I agree with North Star's criticism that this is too long for a single amendment and it smells like they were trying to pack through every possible change at once, rather than allowing free and open debate on each individual point.

[Florestan]

Um, who cares?

If you are concerned about global warming, you should care, because if the average temperature 100, 200 or 700 years ago was the same, or even higher, than it is now then there is no global warming in the Dubai region, right?

Anyway, since there is no way to know what was the average temperature in the Dubai area 100, 200 or 700 years ago, the only scientific conclusion one can draw is that the data are insufficient to make any meaningful comparison. Dubai is hot today and might be even hotter in the future, but this in no way implies it has not been at least as hot, or even hotter, in the past. As far as the Dubai area is concerned, global warming is pure speculation.

Are you saying people should live in 50° heat all the time because maybe somebody 2000 years ago did, too?

That´s a typical non sequitur. Science is not about what people should do, it is about what is, was and will be.

[Florestan]

I never mentioned the Constitution. You just want me to waste a bunch of time arguing with you. Orban's stance toward immigrants is one example of a Trump-Orban similarity which is clear without reading any constitutions.

How is Orban´s stance toward immigrants at variance with the Treaty of Dublin, which is the current enforceable EU regulation on the matter?

[Florestan]

Okay, I guess I will waste some time now cuz I'm trying to avoid work. But after this, I will do work, listen to music, plan a holiday, and generally not argue back.

I'm skimming North Star's link to the Fourth Amendment.
1. I object to the definition of marriage as being exclusively heterosexual.
2. I object to "Hungary shall also protect the institution of family..." because this is meaningless rhetoric with no use.
3. I object to the President's lack of a veto power.
4. Article 5, Section 2 contains some potentially alarming restrictions on free speech. "Violating another person's dignity" and "violating the dignity of the Hungarian nation" are very vague and I suspect certain powerful people will use this to prosecute their enemies for sedition or slander.
5. Why on earth should you be required to get a job in order to receive financial aid for college? Why is that in the Constitution?

I stopped at page 6. I agree with North Star's criticism that this is too long for a single amendment and it smells like they were trying to pack through every possible change at once, rather than allowing free and open debate on each individual point.

You guys don´t get it at all, do you? You are a US citizen, North Star is a Finnish citizen. On what grounds are you two qualified to object to a constitutional amendment adopted by the freely and democratically elected parliament of a sovereign nation other than your own? The Hungarian Constitution applies to, and concerns, solely and exclusively the Hungarian nation.

[ritter]

You guys don´t get it at all, do you? You are a US citizen, North Star is a Finnish citizen. On what grounds are you two qualified to object to a constitutional amendment adopted by the freely and democratically elected parliament of a sovereign nation other than your own? The Hungarian Constitution applies to, and concerns, solely and exclusively the Hungarian nation.

Mmmm...this written in a thread where people from all over the world comment on the politics of the US? Strange...