Countdown to Extinction: The 2016 Presidential Election

[Karl Henning]

Gary Johnson did not ask "Where is Aleppo" but "What is it?"

I know!  Who could imagine that a third-party candidate's foreign policy expertise would outshine the Republican nominee! 

Thank you for your considered and detailed post (and thanks to sanantonio and Jeffrey).

I have repeatedly called this the year of the flawed candidate;  and while there is genuine racism which is the core of El Tupé's support, let's state the obvious: that not everyone who has decided to vote for him is racist.  I'll underscore that:  there are people close to me who will vote for him, and none of these is (to the best of my knowledge) racist. (That caution reflects my imperfect knowledge, and is no impugnment of them.)

There is plenty of "N. is not, not the candidate I wanted, but I consider the alternative intolerable" this year;  and I have not really wished to try anyone's patience—the facts are exasperating enough.  I can see practically all of us shaking our heads in some degree of despair.  I wonder if I should worry about the otherworldly gleam I see in snypsss's eyes, but we'll hope it's nothing, really.

[zamyrabyrd]

There is plenty of "N. is not, not the candidate I wanted, but I consider the alternative intolerable" this year;  and I have not really wished to try anyone's patience—the facts are exasperating enough.  I can see practically all of us shaking our heads in some degree of despair.  I wonder if I should worry about the otherworldly gleam I see in snypsss's eyes, but we'll hope it's nothing, really.

I think it boils down to who can do the least damage. If we are already careening into socialism, (without the proper name for it otherwise people might stop to think), overweening bureaucracy and authoritarianism, then who is more likely to put on the brakes? These past 8 years have been a spending paradise with no thought for tomorrow, next year or putting our kids' future and theirs in hock. I'd really like to see a reduction in national debt. We can really start with that.  That's where a businessman might be useful.

[Karl Henning]

. . . I'd really like to see a reduction in national debt. We can really start with that.  That's where a businessman might be useful.

Not surprisingly, I agree with that entirely.  Where we differ is, his business record does not inspire the least confidence in me.

[zamyrabyrd]

Not surprisingly, I agree with that entirely.  Where we differ is, his business record does not inspire the least confidence in me.

I think DT is genuinely concerned about the national debt. Bringing back outsourced jobs will help American workers.

[drogulus]

     We have been trying for more than a century to find an alternative to socialism that wasn't another way of doing it, but the failure is misrepresented as an ideological one, as in people want the wrong mix in the opinion of the unpeople. There is something very unsatisfactory about a diagnosis that puts ideas before the reality the ideas are about. The evolution of capitalism should not be very different from other institutions. Whatever capitalism and socialism were when they were more distinct than they are, now they are not. There's something left to distinguish them, so it can be said that socialism has more socialism in it than whatever it is the U.S. has. But even that doesn't capture the differences. I like to think that the advanced economies of the U.S. and Europe as representing the evolutionary paths out of the false capitalist/socialist dichotomy.

     We are incapable of careening into some purist socialist or capitalist vision. That's all gone except at the level of political name calling.

I think DT is genuinely concerned about the national debt. Bringing back outsourced jobs will help American workers.

     No one with sense is "concerned" about something that is only a name to them. DT doesn't know what a national debt is or what it's for, not a clue.

[zamyrabyrd]

No one with sense is "concerned" about something that is only a name to them. DT doesn't know what a national debt is or what it's for, not a clue.

Then, we are all doomed. We don't owe anything. Keep on spending. Enjoy! Yippee, the barbarians are coming. Oh wait, they are already HERE???

[drogulus]

Then, we are all doomed. We don't owe anything. Keep on spending. Enjoy! Yippee, the barbarians are coming. Oh wait, they are already HERE???

     Not necessarily. Only if we act on this (heh!) concern are we doomed. A funny thing happens to debt doomers when they get into a position of authority. Someone with actual sense explains national debt to them, how it works. Warren Mosler tell stories about how he explains how debt works to politicians, "But I can't say that!" they exclaim. How true, they can't just tell people what the real deal is, it's pitchfork level stuff. Politicians can't say "sorry we've mislead you all these years, we believed it too!".

     On an almost continual basis the government replenishes the supply of money to the private sector by spending more dollars than it taxes back. Contrary to folk economics the government does not tax in order to spend, it spends first then taxes back the excess. That way people can have dollars to spend and save. Many are saved, which as good Keynesians we know means they must be replaced or the economy crashes. Note that we don't explain it to ourselves that way, sometimes we like to imagine that spending with deferred taxation isn't an operational necessity, but some kind of mistake we make continually for centuries.

     We accidentally accumulate trillions in savings the economy apparently needs to function, record it as debt on the government books, during which the economy has grown far beyond anything in human history before the modern money system was developed, but before I forget it's a bad thing.

      Lookie here:

     https://www.youtube.com/v/Z1uWVj0YJ3M

[Herman]

I think it boils down to who can do the least damage. If we are already careening into socialism, (without the proper name for it otherwise people might stop to think), overweening bureaucracy and authoritarianism, then who is more likely to put on the brakes?

Only an American could say that, hiding under the bed fearing socialism from a moderate Democrats like Hillary or Obama.

Under pressure from talk radio and Fox the USA have veered so far to the right that Hillary more or less fits into the slot that Nixon occupied two generations back. So was Nixon a covert socialist, too?

Or have people at large become crazier and stupider since then. Look at Snyprrr writings and the answer is obvious....

These past 8 years have been a spending paradise with no thought for tomorrow, next year or putting our kids' future and theirs in hock. I'd really like to see a reduction in national debt. We can really start with that.  That's where a businessman might be useful.

Running a business is not the same as running a big country. Second, Trump's business model depends on incurring gigantic debts and letting the business go broke after sucking the money out of them. Trump is dependent on foreign lenders these days because US banks won't give him a dime anymore.

So even if your notion of letting a businessman run te country were good (it isn't), Trump would be the last businessman to pick for the job.

Also the Newsweek stroy may be of interest if you want to know why Trump is unfit, due to his many ties to foreign money.

http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-foreign-business-deals-national-security-498081?rm=eu

[zamyrabyrd]

Only an American could say that, hiding under the bed fearing socialism from a moderate Democrats like Hillary or Obama.

Who's afraid of the big bad wolf, socialism? Until it hits them in the face like Venezuela. Oh, people were ecstatic with all the promises Chavez made back then. Cheap talk like it is now.

Hillary wrote her college thesis on Saul Alinsky. Wonder where she got all those ideas of socialized medicine that she tried to ram through during her husband's presidency. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! The bureaucracy is incredible now trying to get treatment under "Affordable Care" (my son can tell you all about that) which turns out to be more expensive and as in any socialist state, there is no opting out.

But there is something else that may be a game changer. If Hillary's medical issues are neurological, they are not going to get better. Stress and anxiety only compound the problem. Fear of yet another attack almost guarantees it happening again. Someone might have a talk with her to disabuse her of further self-abuse. If she wants to press on, she may be forced to concede. The DNC can choose another candidate that may very well be Biden. A person like may turn out to be the jack-in-the-box no one thought about (making a lot of what has been bandied around here somewhat irrelevant).

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I wonder if historians of the future will write books with titles like 2016: The Year that Broke America

[zamyrabyrd]

I wonder if historians of the future will write books with titles like 2016: The Year that Broke America

We're already broke, no money in the till, man, just figures on a ledger.

[Florestan]

"Socialism" and "capitalism" are just two faces of the same coin --- "socialism" is actually "capitalism for the masses". They are equally materialistic, mechanistic and consummerist. They both promise "paradise on earth" and they both fail miserably, because their anthropological and social premises are equally wrong. 

[Parsifal]

Then, we are all doomed. We don't owe anything. Keep on spending. Enjoy! Yippee, the barbarians are coming. Oh wait, they are already HERE???

The idea that sovereign debt is universally bad is too simple. The U.S. debt relative to the size of the economy has never higher than after World War II, that led to the greatest period of economic growth in U.S. history. In some sense the debt was never paid, the economy grew so large that the debt became insignificant.

It depends on what you do with the borrowed money. If you use the money to invest in something that produces economic growth you end up ahead. If you use the money in a way that produces nothing of value, such as a never-ending war which leaves the U.S. less secure than it started, end puts the government on the hook for life-long medical care for gravely injured soldiers, then it is bad.

Currently the U.S. has fallen behind the rest of the world in investment in physical infrastructure, scientific and technology infrastructure (research funding and education/training) and education. If more debt is necessary to remedy that situation, the US would be better off.

[zamyrabyrd]

"Socialism" and "capitalism" are just two faces of the same coin --- "socialism" is actually "capitalism for the masses". They are equally materialistic, mechanistic and consummerist. They both promise "paradise on earth" and they both fail miserably, because their anthropological and social premises are equally wrong. 

What do you suggest as an alternative? "Enlightened monarchy" has some appeal.

[Parsifal]

I think DT is genuinely concerned about the national debt. Bringing back outsourced jobs will help American workers.

Really? This is what Warren Buffet had to say about Donald Trump:

"The big problem with Donald Trump was he never went right. He basically overpaid for properties, but he got people to lend him the money. He was terrific at borrowing money. If you look at his assets, and what he paid for them, and what he borrowed to get them, there was never any real equity there. He owes, perhaps, $3.5 billion now, and, if you had to pick a figure as to the value of the assets, it might be more like $2.5 billion. He's a billion in the hole, which is a lot better than being $100 in the hole because if you're $100 in the hole, they come and take the TV set. If you're a billion in the hole, they say 'hang in there Donald"

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-comments-on-trump-at-notre-dame-in-1991-134008040.html

To reiterate the Herman said, Donald Trump's assets have come from siphoning money from failing businesses, and leaving the investors and lenders holding the bag.  You think that will work for the U.S. government?

[Florestan]

What do you suggest as an alternative?

Nothing. Until their dialectics will not have exhausted itself, no new form can or will appear and nobody alive today can accurately predict what it will look like.

"Enlightened monarchy" has some appeal.

Alas! there are no longer monarchies, and those who seem to still hold are anything but enlightened.

[zamyrabyrd]

Really? This is what Warren Buffet had to say about Donald Trump:
"The big problem with Donald Trump was he never went right. He basically overpaid for properties, but he got people to lend him the money. He was terrific at borrowing money. If you look at his assets, and what he paid for them, and what he borrowed to get them, there was never any real equity there. He owes, perhaps, $3.5 billion now, and, if you had to pick a figure as to the value of the assets, it might be more like $2.5 billion. He's a billion in the hole, which is a lot better than being $100 in the hole because if you're $100 in the hole, they come and take the TV set. If you're a billion in the hole, they say 'hang in there Donald".
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffett-comments-on-trump-at-notre-dame-in-1991-134008040.html
To reiterate the Herman said, Donald Trump's assets have come from siphoning money from failing businesses, and leaving the investors and lenders holding the bag.  You think that will work for the U.S. government?

Wow, Warren Buffet 25 years ago! Economic prophet without a church! We're all holding the bag for the failures of the big spenders and big talkers.

[snyprrr]

What do you suggest as an alternative? "Enlightened monarchy" has some appeal.

Wow, you're fighting the unwashed masses here all by yourself today! POWER THROUGH!!

Or have people at large become crazier and stupider since then. Look at Snyprrr writings and the answer is obvious....


Also the Newsweek stroy may be of interest if you want to know why Trump is unfit, due to his many ties to foreign money.

http://europe.newsweek.com/donald-trump-foreign-business-deals-national-security-498081?rm=eu

wHAT HAVE i SAID THAT WAS CRAZY?



And, seriously, "foreign money", err hmmm... maybe Hill got a clitorectomy considering all the Saudi money she's taken?? Oh, I guess when you charged thousands of $$$ simply to "touch a child", well, I guess you're right, that must be domestic monies there...

You guys DESERVE Trump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!due to his many ties to foreign money. (wow, I don't know how that happened- gotta love flippin co mputerz)




I can see how a Trump presidency could start out like a NewGoldenAge... and then, at a prescribed time, POOOW!!, the "event" happens and then, baby, it's all over and it's WWIII and the "Rise of the Charismatic World Leader Who Is Already In Our Midst".

That seems like a very reasoned position, no?

I would think the first thing that would happen in a Hilly presidency is that she'd set a bomb off in a big city and declare marshal law and then go about murdering her political and media foes whilst UN troops guard the Deplorables...




There is not one honorable person in Politics today, and if there is, they are being buffeted on every side, or about to have a nasty "accident".


Howz THAT for business as usual, status quo?






IT'S A RACKET


A RACKET


ALL OF IT




WHEN WILL THEY START CHECKING ALL MAIL??






see? caps lock has started. we're doomed!!!!!!!!!!

[Parsifal]

Wow, Warren Buffet 25 years ago! Economic prophet without a church! We're all holding the bag for the failures of the big spenders and big talkers.

Buffet 25 years ago was talking about Trump in his heyday, and his opinion has not changed, he currently supports Clinton. Whether Buffet is a prophet or no, he has been a successful investor for half a century and seems to know something about how business works. What are his "big failures" that you speak of?

[Parsifal]

Who's afraid of the big bad wolf, socialism? Until it hits them in the face like Venezuela Norway.

The question is whether the U.S., as a civilization has more in common with Venezuela or with Norway.