Random thoughts

[Florestan]

The 'i' at the end

Which "i" at what end? 

[North Star]

Which "i" at what end? 

of 'yksi', the only word ending in the letter in the whole thread, apart from the Boccherini's 

[Florestan]

of 'yksi', the only word ending in the letter in the whole thread 

In Romanian there is no "i" whatsoever at the end! It is pronounced exactly like eeks in English. 

[North Star]

In Romanian there is no "i" whatsoever at the end! It is pronounced exactly like eeks in English. 

With a long 'ee' (or y)?

Some numerals:

yksi
kaksi
kolme
neljä (ä pronounced like 'a' in the Engl. word bat)
viisi
kuusi
seitsemän
kahdeksan
yhdeksän
kymmenen

[Jo498]

kahdeksan
yhdeksän

12 and 11?

[North Star]

kahdeksan
yhdeksän

12 and 11?

kaksitoista & yksitoista (and kolmetoista ... yhdeksäntoista, kaksikymmentä, kaksikymmentäyksi, ... kaksikymmentäyhdeksän, kolmekymmentä, ... yhdeksänkymmentäyhdeksän, sata, satayksi)

[Jo498]

kaksitoista & yksitoista (and kolmetoista ... yhdeksäntoista, kaksikymmentä, kaksikymmentäyksi, ... kaksikymmentäyhdeksän, kolmekymmentä, ... yhdeksänkymmentäyhdeksän, sata, satayksi)

So what does kahdeksan mean then? the second? It's got to be related to kaksi, or not?

[Florestan]

With a long 'ee' (or y)?

Not too long, rather short: like iks in Finnish, only with a strong k.

[North Star]

Alright.

So what does kahdeksan mean then? the second? It's got to be related to kaksi, or not?

With a long 'ee' (or y)?

Some numerals:

yksi 1
kaksi 2
kolme 3
neljä (ä pronounced like 'a' in the Engl. word bat) 4
viisi 5
kuusi 6
seitsemän 7
kahdeksan 8
yhdeksän 9
kymmenen 10

kaksitoista & yksitoista (and kolmetoista 13 ... yhdeksäntoista 19, kaksikymmentä 20, kaksikymmentäyksi 21, ... kaksikymmentäyhdeksän 29, kolmekymmentä 30, ... yhdeksänkymmentäyhdeksän 99, sata 100, satayksi 101)

s got to be related to kaksi, or not?
[/quote]

With a long

[Jo498]

So you are counting: two to ten, one to ten, ten? or something like that? Only that there is no common lexem for ten in 8,9,10 and 11 and the following. Is it a mix between the decimal system and another one? Or am I just too dense to recognize the pattern? This is some odd language (I will never take complaints about German being difficult seriously).

[Karl Henning]

yksi = 1
yksitoista = 11
kaksi = 2
kaksitoista = 12
.
.
.
yhdeksän = 9
yhdeksäntoista = 19

[Jo498]

Ah, I saw patterns where they weren't any and thought that "yhdeksän" had "yksi" and "kahdeksan" "kaksi" as components. This is apparently simply wrong.
Still "-toista" means "ten" only in numbers >10 whereas 10 itself "kymmenen" looks completely different.

[Karl Henning]

"-toista" is analogous to "-teen" (understanding that eleven and twelve in English are "irregular").

[North Star]

"-toista" is analogous to "-teen" (understanding that eleven and twelve in English are "irregular").

Yes, from 'toinen' (second). In ye olde tongue, 21 kaksikymmentäyksi = yksi kolmatta, 22 kaksikymmentäkaksi = kaksi kolmatta, 23 kaksikymmentäkolme = kolmekolmatta, etc

[Lisztianwagner]

4. Wagner's music is much better than his ideas, plots, librettos. There is almost no comparison. While in the plots there is always mawkishness and lack of believable motivation in trying to depict failure and tragedy (Meistersinger excepted, and Parsifal partly so), in the music there is a stupendous positive life-force, a sheer glory and happiness, almost without parallel in the arts. 

Could you make an example of mawkishness and lack of believale motivation in Wagner's operas?

[San Antone]

This thread has certainly lived up to its title.

[jochanaan]

kaksitoista & yksitoista (and kolmetoista ... yhdeksäntoista, kaksikymmentä, kaksikymmentäyksi, ... kaksikymmentäyhdeksän, kolmekymmentä, ... yhdeksänkymmentäyhdeksän, sata, satayksi)

I would hate to have to count rests in Finnish!

[Karl Henning]

That's why Finnish composers have to mark the rests pppp

[Florestan]

Yes, from 'toinen' (second). In ye olde tongue, 21 kaksikymmentäyksi = yksi kolmatta, 22 kaksikymmentäkaksi = kaksi kolmatta, 23 kaksikymmentäkolme = kolmekolmatta, etc

Why kolmekolmatta is written as one word, while yksi kolmatta or kaksi kolmattta are not? 

Does kolmatta mean twenty? If yes, why was it changed to kaksikymmentä? 

And finally, from toinen (second) to toista (-teen), what has second got to do with -teen? 

[North Star]

Why kolmekolmatta is written as one word, while yksi kolmatta or kaksi kolmattta are not? 

Because of sloppiness. They should all be written as one word, like all numbers in Finnish.

Does kolmatta mean twenty? If yes, why was it changed to kaksikymmentä? 

It means 'of [the] third', like the next decade will be the third of this century. It's an archaic form, I don't know what exactly caused the change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_numerals

And finally, from toinen (second) to toista (-teen), what has second got to do with -teen? 

Again, we're living the second decade of this millenium, its 'teens'.