Greatest composer of the 20th century?

[(poco) Sforzando]

I could not list a single greatest 20th-century composer (any more than I could for the other main periods: e.g., Mozart and Beethoven for the classical, with Haydn not far behind; Schubert, Wagner, Brahms, and Chopin for the romantic; Debussy and Mahler for the late 19th).

I think for the 20th century the tendency has been for composers to produce striking individual works rather than consistently sustained oeuvres, and much as I admire Stravinsky, for example, I don't see all his output at the level of The Rite of Spring and Les Noces. Similarly the great Schoenberg for me is the atonal period from opp. 11-22, especially things like the Five Pieces, Erwartung, and Pierrot Lunaire. Bartok is up there too, especially for the MfSOaP, Sonata for 2 pianos/percussion, and last four quartets (the Concerto for Orchestra, much as I enjoy it, seems to me a falling off from these earlier works).

(And then there are even some 19th-century composers whom I might not rate as highly as those I've mentioned, but who have produced some amazing individual works - the Mendelssohn of the Octet, the Berlioz of the Love Scene from Romeo and the fourth act and much more from Les Troyens, the Verdi of Falstaff among them.)

Other 20th-century composers who have produced extraordinary individual works include the Berg of Wozzeck and the Three Pieces, the Varèse of Arcana and Amériques, the Carter of the Concerto for Orchestra, Double Concerto, and first three quartets, the Gruppen of Stockhausen, and the Pli selon pli of Boulez. Unfortunately I can't share James's relish for the later Stockhausen (at least that which I've heard). All of these works I've mentioned seem to me incredibly inventive and original in a way Shostakovich and Sibelius are not, and Vaughan Williams is not even on my radar screen.

[(poco) Sforzando]

He's clearly & largely of the romantic tradition .. Wagner influence through & through, content on living off of that legacy. He was riding on the last vestiges of that to the end. Especially something like Salome.

I find him often bloated and overblown in a way Wagner is not. (Sitting through Die Frau at the Met has been a challenge despite many great moments, ditto for Ariadne, Arabella, and even Rosenkavalier; and some of the more diffuse tone poems like Alpine Symphony, Heldenleben, Zarathustra, and Sym Dom are not much better.) Of the operas, I think the most audacious and striking is Elektra. Of the tone poems, some of the more modest ones like Don Juan, Till, and Death and Transfiguration seem to me his best, but I think Don Quixote works rather well too - probably because these works all follow, however loosely, a classical model like sonata form, rondo, or variations, whereas something like the Heldenleben seems designed too much to follow the program. There are also some great songs, like the Four Last. 

[Mirror Image]

I really hate polls like this because for me 'the greatest' essentially boils down to who I believe is the greatest, which, in turn, makes my choice clearly subjective. I can't be objective about this because I don't feel there's just one great composer of the 20th Century but many of them and this applies to all eras of classical music IMHO.

Of course, if I picked just one, I'm sure James would pipe in with a rebuttal and completely dismiss my choice. It's not really about who is the greatest anyway as this isn't some kind of competition. I don't give a twit about innovations or who did what first. All that matters is I get something from the music and it moves me in some way. Everything else is irrelevant.

[Mirror Image]

You've got to be in on the joke. Only James can define the terms, only he understands culture, the world, the good stuff!

So true!

[Jo498]

I voted Bartok because he is my favorite and I think he is certainly among the 5 objectively most important ones. Honorable mentions would be Stravinsky (probably the most important one because he was involved in "founding" several important stylistic strains) and Berg.
But I have to admit that I do not know much of Schoenberg's and Webern's music, both probably more important "technically). I am not familiar enough with the avantgarde from the 1950s onward, although I have heard several pieces.

Debussy and Ravel are undeniably great and I like their music but I only "warmed" (emotionally) to a few pieces. For whatever reason, I do not count them as "typical" 20th century, although Debussy certainly was the most influential composer for the non-Austrian half of the first generation modernists.

[EigenUser]

I am just glad Nate has not noticed me mentioning Debussy.

[Karl Henning]

I could not list a single greatest 20th-century composer [...]

Agreed.

I think for the 20th century the tendency has been for composers to produce striking individual works rather than consistently sustained oeuvres, and much as I admire Stravinsky, for example, I don't see all his output at the level of The Rite of Spring and Les Noces.

There is no difficulty in pointing to works later than these which do not rise to that level (the Circus Polka would be an easy "hostile" example, but I think it perfectly fair in the case of quite agreeable works such as the Ebony or "Dumbarton Oaks" Concerti).  There are social reasons, I suppose, for why we might not reasonably expect a 20^th-c. composer to write only at the top of his game all the time.  Still, I think that there is a good deal of Stravinsky's work, throughout his career, which is reasonably described as at the level of The Rite of Spring and Les noces.

[Brian]

Just passing through to (scandalously?) mention the names Thelonious Monk and Charles Mingus.

[Karl Henning]

Just passing through to (scandalously?) mention the names Thelonious Monk and Charles Mingus.

Applying a tourniquet to James's knickers, I see.

(And I have no quarrel with that.)

[(poco) Sforzando]

There is no difficulty in pointing to works later than these which do not rise to that level (the Circus Polka would be an easy "hostile" example, but I think it perfectly fair in the case of quite agreeable works such as the Ebony or "Dumbarton Oaks" Concerti).  There are social reasons, I suppose, for why we might not reasonably expect a 20^th-c. composer to write only at the top of his game all the time.  Still, I think that there is a good deal of Stravinsky's work, throughout his career, which is reasonably described as at the level of The Rite of Spring and Les noces.

Oh, sure. Let me add the profoundly spiritual Symphony of Psalms, the powerful Oedipus Rex, and the magical Agon just for starters. And I won't forget Petrouchka or Rossignol either, or The Rake's Progress, which for all its lapses (including aspects of the libretto - I mean really, the bread machine, the auctioneer, Baba the Turk?) I love beyond distraction. But the two works I first thought of seem to me more than most others to embody the essence of Stravinsky's originality, while some of the neoclassical works (like the Octet) sound to my ears like so much note-spinning.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Just passing through to (scandalously?) mention the names Thelonious Monk and Charles Mingus.

Coltrane, dude.

[San Antone]

There are plenty of great composers if we open it up to Broadway (Rodgers/Hart or Hammerstein; Sondheim; Kander/Ebb) and/or popular songwriting (Cole Porter; Bob Dylan; Peter Gabriel; etc.).  But why?  It is hard enough to find a consensus concerning the classical music idiom.

[Moonfish]

Hmm, of course!!!!  Björn Ulveaus & Benny Andersson!!!!!!   

[Karl Henning]

Oh, sure. Let me add the profoundly spiritual Symphony of Psalms, the powerful Oedipus Rex, and the magical Agon just for starters. And I won't forget Petrouchka or Rossignol either, or The Rake's Progress, which for all its lapses (including aspects of the libretto - I mean really, the bread machine, the auctioneer, Baba the Turk?) I love beyond distraction. But the two works I first thought of seem to me more than most others to embody the essence of Stravinsky's originality, while some of the neoclassical works (like the Octet) sound to my ears like so much note-spinning.

No great argument with any of your points here.

[ritter]

I refuse to vote!!!! 

[Karl Henning]

I refuse to vote!!!! 

Me, too!

[Jubal Slate]

Louis Armstrong

*runs away*

[Karl Henning]

Hmph.  Just viewed the results.  I love Bartok, but Greatest composer of the 20th century?  I certainly enjoy the anarchism expressed in Other garnering a solid 42.9% of the vote at press time!

Still:  I refuse to vote.  You cannot make me . . . .

[Karl Henning]

Louis Armstrong

*runs away*

So, did you cast your vote for Other? 

[Mirror Image]

I refuse to vote!!!! 

+1