Loudspeakers

[Coopmv]

I assume you read this last night:

He's right. Through my Canton Ventos in my main listening room the recording sounds spectacular. But last night, listening to "mid-fi" speakers attached to my computer, clarity was lost. The viola and cello turned to mud. It was difficult to hear individual lines. The performance is exciting as hell so I didn't mind but I want to second Jens' warning. If you think the sound might be a problem for you, you should consider one of his other choices.

Sarge

I assume most forum members have "audiophile" grade audio equipments for critical listening ... 

[Scarpia]

Altec Lansing ACS340. Picture here

Sarge

I see.  I suspected you would characterize my Polk Lsi9's "mid-fi" drek. 



In any case, maybe I should forget about it.  I was pretty disappointed with the Cherubini recording of Opus 80.  Given that the piece was supposedly inspired by the death of Felix's dear sister Fanny I was expecting to hear a hint of the animal howl in it.  Instead it sounded like an extra-fussy version of Mozart.  Given that the Cherubini seems to get respect, I've grown skeptical that the Leipzig quartet will bring any particular enlightenment.

[Sergeant Rock]

If you let me know well ahead of time, I could probably arrange something on the ticket front for you & Ms. Rock. I know where the Thiel shop is, too... what had kept me from the purchase so far was the steep premium one had to pay in Europe over their perfectly reasonable cost in the US.

Yeah, that's often a problem with American products in Germany especially when something is only available through a specialty shop. What do they cost here (he asks, bracing himself)?

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I see.  I suspected you would characterize my Polk Lsi9's "mid-fi" drek. 

No, I don't make those kind of judgments, especially when I haven't even heard the speakers. I'm reasonably happy with my own Polks...but they are getting on (twenty-five years old soon) which is why I'm thinking of a replacement.

Sarge

[Scarpia]

No, I don't make those kind of judgments, especially when I haven't even heard the speakers. I'm reasonably happy with my own Polks...but they are getting on (twenty-five years old soon) which is why I'm thinking of a replacement.

Sarge

Which ones do you have?

I am very suspicious of any speaker that contains any technology that is not absolutely standard.  The reason is that I have observed that the brilliant innovation being lauded in the audiophile magazines today will have vanished from the marketplace in 5 years.  Remember when you could read about nothing but these:

[prémont]

I have observed that the brilliant innovation being lauded in the audiophile magazines today will have vanished from the marketplace in 5 years. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Which ones do you have?

Polk Monitor 5B



Sarge

[jlaurson]

Yeah, that's often a problem with American products in Germany especially when something is only available through a specialty shop. What do they cost here (he asks, bracing himself)?

Sarge

I think they were € 2400,- a pair. Compared to $ 1000,- per piece in the US. The difference was huge, then... but now it's shrunk considerably. And if we both get a pair, surely we can get an additional discount, no? 

FYI: Just published a piece on Nagano leaving Munich for Deutsche Welle: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5779005,00.html

[SonicMan46]

It wasn't until I heard the recordings on these puppies, that I discovered their 'hidden' audiophile nature:

Thiel SCS4

Jens - those look like some great speakers that could go on a bookshelf (my only option in the den) in either a vertical or horizontal position - might need to see if I can 'audition' them locally!

I still have a set of ElectroVoice (EV) speakers I bought in the late 1970s for about $500 (mail order; running $700 in town - actually a lot of money back then), but they just work out well in my den; in fact, I had the passive radiators and woofers re-built locally last year - sound as good as new!  Dave 

[Coopmv]

Jens - those look like some great speakers that could go on a bookshelf (my only option in the den) in either a vertical or horizontal position - might need to see if I can 'audition' them locally!

I still have a set of ElectroVoice (EV) speakers I bought in the late 1970s for about $500 (mail order; running $700 in town - actually a lot of money back then), but they just work out well in my den; in fact, I had the passive radiators and woofers re-built locally last year - sound as good as new!  Dave 

I still use that 30-year old Tandberg amp to power one of my 5 sound systems at my house.  It sounds as sweet as ever ...

[Sergeant Rock]

I think they were € 2400,- a pair.

Ouch. That is a lot. The Canton Vento 809DC can be bought for €1700 a pair...not that they would fit easily into my 3x4.5 den. Just using that speaker as a price comparison.

Sarge

[jlaurson]

Jens - those look like some great speakers that could go on a bookshelf (my only option in the den) in either a vertical or horizontal position - might need to see if I can 'audition' them locally!

I still have a set of ElectroVoice (EV) speakers I bought in the late 1970s for about $500 (mail order; running $700 in town - actually a lot of money back then), but they just work out well in my den; in fact, I had the passive radiators and woofers re-built locally last year - sound as good as new!  Dave 

They're very small, but they pack a punch that is truly admirable. We worked them hard, too, in at least five rounds of auditions against 7 other pairs. There are still a few pairs that I'd like to compare them to (Tannoy Definition DC8, Sonics Arkadia, Sonics Argenta, Canton Reference 9.2DC, Sonus Faber Liuto Monitor, ME Geithain ME25), but all of those are more expensive; none are known for being as detailed. I couldn't even listen to B&W for too long; they tried to beautify everything and I felt like I was being had 1984-like; shown a distorted 'perfectly harmonious' picture that doesn't actually exist in the reality beneath it. The only test where the Thiels were notably outperformed were the grooves of Salif Keita on M'Bemba. The oomph was still awesome, but the speaker felt a little like a classical audience sitting in Salif's concert; going with the rhythm and enjoying themselves, but looking slightly awkward in the process. But all was forgiven and forgotten when Paavo Jaervi's Eroica (RCA, Bremen Chamber Phil) shot out at me, like a quick punch to the face, right in the kisser.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

They're [Thiel] not the grooviest speakers, but I loved their response, their precision and accuracy, how explosive and immediate everything sounded on them... total detail. Perfect for a smallish place or room (like mine), perfect for detail-fetishists, perfect for 5.1 (w/subwoofer).

Well, coming in late to this discussion, but based on your description of your speakers I'd say they definitely ARE groovy! In fact, your description sounds a lot like how I'd describe my six-year-old Revel M20 stand-mounts. Same characteristics.

Impressive performance from a "small" box.

[SonicMan46]

Well, for those becoming enthused over the Thiel speaker(s) discussed in several posts previously - I've been checking the pricing at Amazon & at Crutchfield, $990 per speaker, so 2000 bucks for a pair! 

Out of curiosity, I checked a dollar inflation calculator - my OLD speakers (purchased about 1978) were $500 (not including shipping) - their current 'cost' in 2010 would be $1,740, so about the same if one wants to look at the replacement in that way? 

[jlaurson]

Well, for those becoming enthused over the Thiel speaker(s) discussed in several posts previously - I've been checking the pricing at Amazon & at Crutchfield, $990 per speaker, so 2000 bucks for a pair! 

Yep... I said $1000,- per speaker  (2400 Euro per pair) earlier. They're a bargain in the US, compared to the speakers that come even near its quality. (Assuming one likes the characteristics, which are almost monitor-like.)

[drogulus]

Which ones do you have?

I am very suspicious of any speaker that contains any technology that is not absolutely standard.  The reason is that I have observed that the brilliant innovation being lauded in the audiophile magazines today will have vanished from the marketplace in 5 years.  Remember when you could read about nothing but these:

      Omnidirectional speakers never caught on. That's too bad since the tradeoff is a good one. You give up that fake sweet spot imaging (which is nothing like live music) for a decent stereo image all over the room. The sound remains coherent even when walking around. I could stand right next to one of my Ohm F's and hear the other perfectly. I imagine this would be a good solution for movie sound as well.

      I have long ago given up the idea that the differences between speakers must be differences in quality that are "not subtle" or "jaw dropping". It''s too much work to maintain that illusion against the evidence that the great majority of mainstream speakers are competently designed. Find the ones you like and stop worrying.

      Incidentally, Ohm Speakers is still in business selling directly on the web. They have 2 lines, roughly big ones and little ones. The Walsh driver has undergone some refinement and a supertweeter has been added. I haven't heard any of these "new" ones (they've been around for a long time).

     

     

[petrarch]

There are still a few pairs that I'd like to compare them to (Tannoy Definition DC8, Sonics Arkadia, Sonics Argenta, Canton Reference 9.2DC, Sonus Faber Liuto Monitor, ME Geithain ME25), but all of those are more expensive; none are known for being as detailed. I couldn't even listen to B&W for too long; they tried to beautify everything and I felt like I was being had 1984-like; shown a distorted 'perfectly harmonious' picture that doesn't actually exist in the reality beneath it.

Probably not the size or budget you had in mind, but the Sonics Allegra and B&W 802D belong to the very small set of box speakers that I thoroughly enjoy (and I don't like B&W in general, but the 802 with Spectral electronics were magical). In any case, I prefer ribbons/electrostatics and it would be very unlikely that I would go back to box speakers.