Great underrated pieces.

[loudav]

There's also a complete recording by Danielle Laval, in Accord.

That is my favorite on LP. Is it also on CD?

[Haffner]

Haydn op. 20

Mozart's excellent "Haydn Quartets" were mostly modeled off of this set (as well as op.33). WaM succeeded in what he aimed for: duplicating their feel and most of their compositional techniques, whilst adding just enough of himself to make them stand apart.

But, nothing ever beats the original eh ?

[Hector]

We've been here before, I think.

Most of that listed is underplayed rather than underrated.

1812 is, on the other hand, merely taken for granted.

I would suggest something like Lalo's Symphony in G that does not conform to what is expected of a French composer in that it is very Germanic, Schumannesque in fact, but it is a fine work and recorded by Beecham who didn't record any old shit!

Come to think of it French opera tends to be seriously underrated.

[Gabriel]

That is my favorite on LP. Is it also on CD?

It is; I bought it some months ago.

http://www4.fnac.com/Shelf/article.aspx?PRID=1258653&OrderInSession=1&Mn=23&SID=c0b7bff2-be5e-0cb2-7714-3f47cefde88a&TTL=220820071738&Origin=FnacAff&Ra=-29&To=0&Nu=1&UID=09A7741CF-105F-59C9-F4E2-2C2433E7C7BA&Fr=0

[Ten thumbs]

Most of that listed is underplayed rather than underrated.

There is another list of pieces 'under-known' for one reason or another. For instance Fanny Hensel's lied for piano in Eb of 24.11.1846 was lost in archive for nearly 150 years. Yet if it were to become widely known I believe it would quickly find its way to the top of many people's wish list.

[loudav]

It is; I bought it some months ago.

http://www4.fnac.com/Shelf/article.aspx?PRID=1258653&OrderInSession=1&Mn=23&SID=c0b7bff2-be5e-0cb2-7714-3f47cefde88a&TTL=220820071738&Origin=FnacAff&Ra=-29&To=0&Nu=1&UID=09A7741CF-105F-59C9-F4E2-2C2433E7C7BA&Fr=0

Thanks for pointing that out. I'll stick with my LPs, but my .02 to anyone who's reading: that's a great set and is well worth getting if you like classical era piano music. Clementi expanded the classical harmonic range before Beethoven, then expanded it further as a contemporary and admirer of Beethoven. Laval's performances are solid and seemingly effortless. The recording has a warm slightly-echoey quality but is plenty well defined for my ears. Again and again listening to the GadP I find myself thinking that if I wrote music I'd want it to be exactly like that.

[Larry Rinkel]

Corey,

Of the recordings of Raff's symphonies 8 - 11, I think those performances are the worst. And not by a small margin, but just really, really bad. In general, I prefer the Tudor label performances of Raff symphonies, with the possible sole exception of the 9th. At least in the first movement, I think the Marco Polo performance is best. Luckily, with the magic of computers, I can rip the 1st movement of the 9th from my Marco Polo disc, and the other 3 movements from the Tudor disc, and "build" my own, favourite performance.

Anyway, for the cpo CDs, I think all the Raff symphonies they've done are bad, and especially the 9th and 8th. That's just my opinion. I'm definitely not alone in it, but I have seen some people praise them; however, as far as I know, all the people I've seen praise it have heard only those versions of the symphonies and no other, so they have no comparison.

That's too bad, as I just picked up this disc (but haven't slit the plastic yet). But what's so bad about it? You provide no reasons, and in fact others on rmcr have commented very favorably on this set:

> > As for the Raff, I can sympathize. I'm starting to like his music more
> > now that I picked up more of his symphonies, on CPO.


> Do you have the CPO 2 cd set of Raff's "seasons' symphonies, 8-11?
> Very impressive music and performances.


> Marc Perman



Yes. Before that I had some on Hyperion and one or two other labels,
which were good but not as impressive. I liked everything about the CPO
discs--the music seemed surprisingly individual and sophisticated
considering how much garbage was written during that period, and the
playing was of the highest caliber from the Philharmonia Hungarica. One
of these days I'm going to want to get their recording of the 7th.

--Jeff

[JoshLilly]

I just don't like the tempi they use, the playing. I don't know how to explain it, I just don't like the performances. If we were to sit in a room and play them side by side, I could verbally point out where and what I don't like. It's not a problem with sound quality, as cpo seems pretty universally good on that. I just don't like what the conductor and/or orchestra do compared to the Tudor versions, and especially compared to the Marco Polo 9th.

[Larry Rinkel]

I just don't like the tempi they use, the playing. I don't know how to explain it, I just don't like the performances. If we were to sit in a room and play them side by side, I could verbally point out where and what I don't like. It's not a problem with sound quality, as cpo seems pretty universally good on that. I just don't like what the conductor and/or orchestra do compared to the Tudor versions, and especially compared to the Marco Polo 9th.

All right, that's a start. Are the tempi too fast, too slow? are the balances too thick, too transparent? is the phrasing less detailed and articulated than in other versions? Not knowing this music at all, before I think about taking this back unopened, I'd like to know a bit more why you find this set so unsatisfactory. And perhaps also you can list your favorite versions of the Raff works you most admire.

[Hector]

All right, that's a start. Are the tempi too fast, too slow? are the balances too thick, too transparent? is the phrasing less detailed and articulated than in other versions? Not knowing this music at all, before I think about taking this back unopened, I'd like to know a bit more why you find this set so unsatisfactory. And perhaps also you can list your favorite versions of the Raff works you most admire.

You ought to access the Raff Society website for reviews of all recordings. As I recall the Tudor recordings, mainly under Stadlmair, are seen as complimentary to Albert's CPO recordings.

It was a broadcast of the CPO 10th that persuaded me into buying Albert/CPO's set.

By this time the now defunct Philharmonia Hungarica was not the same orchestra that recorded the complete Haydn symphonies under Dorati and the plug was finally pulled by Chancellor Kohl's government when funding was withdrawn.

[JoshLilly]

Sometimes too fast, sometimes too slow. I don't think the opening of the 9th is beautiful enough how it is handled on the cpo CD, and find both the Tudor and especially Marco Polo versions better. I just like them more. For the most part, I prefer Tudor versions: Symphonies 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 10, 11. I prefer Marco Polo versions for 8 and 9. For the 2nd symphony, it's about a tie I guess. And for cpo discs, I've only heard the 8-11 box, but I think they've also recorded the 7th. I don't hate their renditions of the 10th or 11th, but I think they're inferior to either of the others I've heard. In the case of the 9th, the other three versions I've heard are all better, in my opinion. It's not much about the sound quality at all, it's just my taste for how these symphonies are performed. I first heard Marco Polo CDs of all his symphonies, I bought the complete set before ever hearing the Tudor ones, but most of the Raff fans I know kept recommending them, so I got them (mostly used) finally. And I ended up switching to preferring those, with the exceptions I outlined above. At last, I listened to the cpo 8-11 set, and liked those the least. I almost wish that set didn't exist, mainly because of how they do the 9th, I feel that it might make some people that would be swept away by it from hearing another version just go "eh" and forget Raff.

Other than the symphonies, there aren't usually multiple versions of the same work available. For example, if you want his awesome Cello Concerto #1, you've got to go Tudor, I don't think there's anything else out there. The Piano Concerto is the major exception, there are like 6 or more recordings of that. The string quartets I think are coming out at the same time by two labels, one of them Tudor; the other might be cpo, I forget. cpo redeems itself toward Raff in my view with their coming out of Raff's complete music for violin and piano, including the highly melodic Violin Sonata #1.

[BachQ]

While I don't really know of a single piece that could be awarded "most underrated," I do think Martinů is off the radar for most listeners, especially his larger works.  (Certainly that is the case on concert programs.)  His ballet Špalíček is charming, and ditto La Revue de Cuisine, and the few operas I've heard are full of interesting material.  Last year I finally heard Hlas lesa (The Voice of the Forest), originally designed for radio, and wondered why this engaging score is just sitting around waiting for someone to program it.

--Bruce

What non-vocal ( ) works by Martinů should be on every listener's playlist?

[Kullervo]

What non-vocal ( ) works by Martinů should be on every listener's playlist?

Double Concerto

[BachQ]

Double Concerto

Thanks, Corey! 

[Kullervo]

Thanks, Corey! 

Assuming you weren't being sarcastic, you can listen to some samples here.

[BachQ]

Assuming you weren't being sarcastic, you can listen to some samples here.

Thanks.  Does anyone have thoughts on Martinu's cello concertos or symphonies?

[Kullervo]

Thanks.  Does anyone have thoughts on Martinu's cello concertos or symphonies?

Haven't heard any of the cello concertos but the symphonies are all good. The Thomson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra set on Chandos is cheap enough that you won't be irked if you end up not liking them, but judging by what I know of your tastes, I think you'll find it worthwhile.

[Grazioso]

Haven't heard any of the cello concertos but the symphonies are all good. The Thomson/Royal Scottish National Orchestra set on Chandos is cheap enough that you won't be irked if you end up not liking them, but judging by what I know of your tastes, I think you'll find it worthwhile.

I have that set and can't get past the first symphony--not because I dislike it, but because I like it so much, I keep replaying it

[mikkeljs]

Lili Boulanger's striking and eerie early 20th-century choral work Psaume 130 "Du fond de l'abime". Her entire oeuvre is unjustly unknown to most.

I would have said that too.  I really love her works! And I checked the recordings...there only exists a very few.  Some of her largest and greatest orchestra works are only recorded once or twice I think.

[carlos]

Try his string quartets. I have it all and like them very much.