Katherine Jenkins

[Tsaraslondon]

Tried to listen to convince myself I am wrong, but...am convinced in the opposite. What did I hear? The sound is pretty soft, but it is not a pure ringing voice, rather a fading pale tone with substantial vibrato. Each piano, though well done, does not grow and bloom but rather dies away. Pretty well sung, but there is no brilliance, no splendour of the voice...and so unnatural. So...just mediocre.

I think you are listening to her in the wrong repertoire. I don't particularly like her in bel canto works either, but in Strauss and Mozart she could be incomparable. I say "could be", because, these days, that tendency to croon (also a fault with Moffo in her later years) is becoming more pronounced. I certainly wouldn't call her a mediocrity. She has a voice of arresting beauty, and is in a totally different world and class from Katherine Jenkins, whose name appears at the top of this thread. I have actually worked with Fleming (I played the speaking role of the Doctor in A Streetcar Named Desire, when Andre Previn brought the opera to the Barbican), and can vouch for the quality of the voice and the artist. it is actually a much bigger voice than you would expect, and it never loses quality at whatever volume she is singing.
Her most recent recital CD, entitled "Homage" is a mixture of hits and misses and is a good indication of what suits her best. The Strauss and Korngold selections suit her admirably. So too, more unxepectedly perhaps, do the Janacek, Dvorak and Smetana, Tchaikovsky and Rimsky-Korsakov. In French opera there is one hit (Massenet's Herodiade, reminding us of her glorious Thais, the best on disc) and one miss (the waltz song sung by Goulnod's Mireille, which had me thinking of how well Sutherland might have sung it). The Italian items don't suit her at all. Poveri fiori from Adrianna Lecouvreur totally lacks the pathos brought to it by such singers as Callas, Scotto and Olivero, nor does she have the necessary darkness of tone for the Leonora of Il Trovatore. Tosca's Vissi d'arte is pretty much a disaster, the climax spun out to interminable lengths. The voice character is all wrong too. She sounds more like a petulant, spoiled child, who's been told she won't be getting any Christmas presents, than the desperate prima donna pleading for the life of the man she loves. However, throughout this mishmash of successes and failures, there is no denying the quality of the instrument itself.

I do wonder though about the tendency of many of today's singers, particularly American ones, not to specialise, or choose a particular fach. There seems to be a desire to sing it all, and in so doing compromises are made. Sutherland started out singing all sorts - Wagner, Verdi, Poulenc, even Tippett - but as soon she had made her debut as Lucia, she concentrated on the bel canto repertoire which served her so well and over a very long career. In those days, singers might try different repertoire at an early stage in their career, before settling into the one that suited them best. Schwarzkopf even reduced her repertoire to a very small number of roles (the Marschallin, the Countess in Capriccio, Donna Elvira, Fiordiligi, Countess Almaviva and Alice Ford in Verdi's Falstaff), which she preformed supremely well. Someone once told me that the highest paid tenor was actually Alfredo Kraus, but that was because he sang a very small number of roles better than anyone else.

Incidentally I wouldn't pay too much attention to the fact that Fleming was booed at La Scala. Many great singers have suffered at the hands of that audience for all sorts of reasons, most of them nothing to do music.

[knight66]

Fleming very much reminds me of Kiri te Kanawa. She is unbeatable with the right conductor in the right pieces. I would echo a lot of what TL says above. I heard her Thais last week in a relay from the Met; her voice and technique are exceptional. But, she can be a dull singer, she often seems disengaged, she is not really a bel canto exponent. But the equipment is superb for the right music.

I am frankly surprised that Sarastro makes frequent reference back to Sutherland, (I think I read another such comparison of him today on another singer.) She was a superb technician and did specialise in bel canto, it was a round voice, warm, generous in tone and indeed in volume. However, it was a rare night when she provided real insights into what she was singing. She frequently crooned, mooned, elided words and sang with indistinct pronunciation. If ever there was a canary fancier's diva; it was she. She could certainly convey joy, but it seemed to me to be a joy at the act of singing itself; as against dealing with the words.

As we have many times opined, there are almost no singers who really use the music intelligently in such a way as to make the notes themselves have a meaning in the way the words do; Callas casts her long shadow here as so often. Her Norma uses the music itself in a dramatic and intelligent way that really no one else seems to have plumbed in recorded history.

So, when we deal with who is around just now, we need to have some patience. There is no point in being so completely dismissive, unless we can point to current singers we ought to listen to instead. I can often go along with you Sarastro to an extent, but your criticism is so militant, so all or nothing.

Mike

[Anne]

I cannot get into Fleming's singing no matter what opera.

The objections some have to Sutherland do not bother me at all.  First, when she sings music that includes high notes, I know from the very beginning that she will hit all the notes.  With that being a given, I can relax, stop worrying whether the singer can hit the notes, and just enjoy the beauty of the music.  For me that is a big plus.

People do not like the fact that Sutherland values vowels over consonants.  With good reason she knows that the vowels are more open and help the sound come out better.  I cannot even hear the words when people sing or speak English their diction is so poor.  However I keep trying and end up frustrated and angry.  What a relief it is to have the opera in a language I do not know.  First I learn the libretto.  Then I lean back, relax,  and enjoy the musical experience.

If you have the mostly oop Essential Opera VHS tape that contains Rigoletto   the last act where the quartet "Bella figlia dell'amore" (Sutherland, Pavarotti, Isola Jones, Leo Nucci) is sung, you have a chance to hear Sutherland sing those high notes way above everyone else.  It is such a thrill to hear it.  I could go back and listen to it again and again. 

[Sarastro]

I think you are listening to her in the wrong repertoire. I don't particularly like her in bel canto works either, but in Strauss and Mozart she could be incomparable. I say "could be", because, these days, that tendency to croon (also a fault with Moffo in her later years) is becoming more pronounced. I certainly wouldn't call her a mediocrity. She has a voice of arresting beauty, and is in a totally different world and class from Katherine Jenkins, whose name appears at the top of this thread. I have actually worked with Fleming (I played the speaking role of the Doctor in A Streetcar Named Desire, when Andre Previn brought the opera to the Barbican), and can vouch for the quality of the voice and the artist. it is actually a much bigger voice than you would expect, and it never loses quality at whatever volume she is singing.
Her most recent recital CD, entitled "Homage" is a mixture of hits and misses and is a good indication of what suits her best. The Strauss and Korngold selections suit her admirably. So too, more unxepectedly perhaps, do the Janacek, Dvorak and Smetana, Tchaikovsky and Rimsky-Korsakov. In French opera there is one hit (Massenet's Herodiade, reminding us of her glorious Thais, the best on disc) and one miss (the waltz song sung by Goulnod's Mireille, which had me thinking of how well Sutherland might have sung it). The Italian items don't suit her at all. Poveri fiori from Adrianna Lecouvreur totally lacks the pathos brought to it by such singers as Callas, Scotto and Olivero, nor does she have the necessary darkness of tone for the Leonora of Il Trovatore. Tosca's Vissi d'arte is pretty much a disaster, the climax spun out to interminable lengths. The voice character is all wrong too. She sounds more like a petulant, spoiled child, who's been told she won't be getting any Christmas presents, than the desperate prima donna pleading for the life of the man she loves. However, throughout this mishmash of successes and failures, there is no denying the quality of the instrument itself.

Incidentally I wouldn't pay too much attention to the fact that Fleming was booed at La Scala. Many great singers have suffered at the hands of that audience for all sorts of reasons, most of them nothing to do music.

Great post, thank you. It is impossible to disagree with you for the most part, but I will -- for Mozart. One role I heard her in (not live of course!) - Donna Anna - surprised me; I did not quite understand several variations in Mozart, as if it were Donizetti, and the tone was harsh. I haven't heard any Strauss, certainly I should give it a try...if I have time, money, and desire for it.

I do wonder though about the tendency of many of today's singers, particularly American ones, not to specialise, or choose a particular fach. There seems to be a desire to sing it all, and in so doing compromises are made. Sutherland started out singing all sorts - Wagner, Verdi, Poulenc, even Tippett - but as soon she had made her debut as Lucia, she concentrated on the bel canto repertoire which served her so well and over a very long career. In those days, singers might try different repertoire at an early stage in their career, before settling into the one that suited them best. Schwarzkopf even reduced her repertoire to a very small number of roles (the Marschallin, the Countess in Capriccio, Donna Elvira, Fiordiligi, Countess Almaviva and Alice Ford in Verdi's Falstaff), which she preformed supremely well. Someone once told me that the highest paid tenor was actually Alfredo Kraus, but that was because he sang a very small number of roles better than anyone else.

I understand you very well, but do not wonder. As far as I know, American singers are taught to be versatile - thus they, supposedly, are able to find more job opportunities, be more marketable, and make more money. Such approach makes it clear that nowadays opera world is a conveyor stamping singers as if they were photo cameras...it is profitable business if you know how to manipulate public. I don't say opera never were a form of business, but nowadays it feels especially sharp.

She frequently crooned, mooned, elided words and sang with indistinct pronunciation. If ever there was a canary fancier's diva; it was she. She could certainly convey joy, but it seemed to me to be a joy at the act of singing itself; as against dealing with the words.

I assume that having a sinus operation done would affect your diction even in your native language; in her book, Sutherland writes that the doctor admonished her that after this operation there was a chance she would not be able to sing at all, but she had to decide because the polypi had to be removed as soon as possible. I tend to attribute deterioration of her diction to that operation -- in 1959 Don Giovanni it was excellent -- though it may as well be a result of her pursuit for impeccable legato, as Anne stated.
I wouldn't compare anyone to Callas - let the phenomenon be aside from others - and Sutherland with all her flaws is of course a great diva who could convey despair and tragedy as well, especially in bel canto roles that use different means of dramatic expressiveness. Lucrezia Borgia finale.

I don't make a claim for being right, but in opera I give the first priority to music, since it is musical theatre. And in that light diction becomes less important for me. In fact, it is a very controversial topic. There are many things about Sutherland: the operation, being a native English speaker singing in Italian and French, on the other hand after the criticism for her poor diction she improved for some time... Moreover, right now I can recall two Italian singers with problematic diction: Carlo Bergonzi and Franco Corelli. Whereas Bergonzi had actually a crystal-clear diction, pronouciation sometimes sounds funny. Instead of "mia sposa" he sings "mia shpozha" or "celeshte Aida." It may be just a problem with articulation or may be his local Parma pronounciation. Corelli was always criticized for his crammed diction and was literally devastated by French critics for his French in Faust.

unless we can point to current singers we ought to listen to instead

Shall I start a new topic? I have quite a few names to throw...  I solemnly invite you to the new topic.