Author Topic: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau  (Read 11356 times)

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Offline ritter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2020, 12:02:34 PM »
Another, very positive review of the “Complete Songs” set on MusicWeb International, this time by Stephen Greenbank: http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Feb/Hahn_songs_BZ2002.htm
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2020, 02:01:48 PM »
G’day to you, Rafael. Out of curiosity, what is so attractive about Hahn’s music? I heard a few works (can’t remember what they are at the moment), but charming comes to mind, but that’s about it. I don’t hear a particular individualistic composer. As you may (or may not know), I’m really into harmony and composers that had a remarkable ear for fascinating chordal sequences or colors. I don’t really hear this in Hahn’s music or, at least, the works I’ve heard from him.
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Offline ritter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2020, 02:42:41 AM »
G’day to you, Rafael. Out of curiosity, what is so attractive about Hahn’s music? I heard a few works (can’t remember what they are at the moment), but charming comes to mind, but that’s about it. I don’t hear a particular individualistic composer. As you may (or may not know), I’m really into harmony and composers that had a remarkable ear for fascinating chordal sequences or colors. I don’t really hear this in Hahn’s music or, at least, the works I’ve heard from him.
Hello John!

I tried to explain the allure that Hahn's music has for me in the OP of this thread (probably no too eloquently  :-[).

"... I haven't answered your question: what does his music sound like? We're in a world that rejects any sort of harmonic innovation, but that is well crafted and has a definite charm, even if at times it turns (deliberately) into pastiche and, at others (seldom), can almost be kitsch   I'd say it's completely imbued by nostalgia, pleasant to the ear,  and deliberately démodé by the time it was composed. But, with these features, Hahn does have a very personal style, which could not be confused with that of any other composer. The sound world of a certain period  in France that had ended long before Hahn stopped composing, and directed to some social circles ("le grand monde") whose influence had also vanished by then."

Reading this now, I think there's a couple of things to add (or to amend). Firstly, it is clear that harmonic innovation is certainly not Reynaldo's thing, but there are (in his late chamber music) some very subtle and rather accomplished harmonic twists to be found, which add interest to the music. And, as our former GMGer Spineur (whose departure is much lamented) points out in this same thread, Hahn was a master in setting (usually top-quality) French poetry to music. Some of his mélodies are IMHO among the best in the whole repertoire. Finally, there's an undeniable melodic gift.

Apart from this, as also mentioned in the OP, there's some extra-musical aspects that make Reynaldo's figure alluring to me: we both come from a similar cultural background, and are attracted to a certain milieu (the whole Proust world and French artistic circles of the early 20th century). He, of course, became an integral part of that world, while I have not  ;).

Where I disagree with you is in the lack of individuality in his music. The features I try to highlight in his style do make for a very personal voice, unmistakably his.

Having said all this, you're probably right: Hahn doesn't seem to be the type of composer you would "get into", but I think you shouldn't dismiss him completely either.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 03:30:01 AM by ritter »
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Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2020, 07:52:12 AM »
Hello John!

I tried to explain the allure that Hahn's music has for me in the OP of this thread (probably no too eloquently  :-[).

"... I haven't answered your question: what does his music sound like? We're in a world that rejects any sort of harmonic innovation, but that is well crafted and has a definite charm, even if at times it turns (deliberately) into pastiche and, at others (seldom), can almost be kitsch   I'd say it's completely imbued by nostalgia, pleasant to the ear,  and deliberately démodé by the time it was composed. But, with these features, Hahn does have a very personal style, which could not be confused with that of any other composer. The sound world of a certain period  in France that had ended long before Hahn stopped composing, and directed to some social circles ("le grand monde") whose influence had also vanished by then."

Reading this now, I think there's a couple of things to add (or to amend). Firstly, it is clear that harmonic innovation is certainly not Reynaldo's thing, but there are (in his late chamber music) some very subtle and rather accomplished harmonic twists to be found, which add interest to the music. And, as our former GMGer Spineur (whose departure is much lamented) points out in this same thread, Hahn was a master in setting (usually top-quality) French poetry to music. Some of his mélodies are IMHO among the best in the whole repertoire. Finally, there's an undeniable melodic gift.

Apart from this, as also mentioned in the OP, there's some extra-musical aspects that make Reynaldo's figure alluring to me: we both come from a similar cultural background, and and are attracted to a certain milieu (the whole Proust world and French artistic circles of the early 20th century). He, of course, became an integral part of that world, why I have not  ;).

Where I disagree with you is in the lack of individuality in his music. The features I try to highlight in his style do make for a very personal voice, unmistakably his.

Having said all this, you're probably right: Hahn doesn't seem to be the type of composer you would "get into", but I think you shouldn't dismiss him completely either.

Thanks for the well-considered response, Rafael. I think your last sentence pretty much sums it for me. His harmonic language just isn’t attractive to me or, rather the way he constructs his harmonies. Poulenc wasn’t harmonically adventurous either compared to his contemporaries, but it’s the way he constructed these harmonic sequences in conjunction with his incredible melodic gift that I find attractive. I now remember what I heard of Hahn's: the Violin Sonata and the song cycle, Les feuilles blessées. I believe I have heard a few of the orchestral works, too, but I can’t remember those now. It’s difficult not to dismiss a composer that doesn’t do much for me, but I suppose I’ll try again at some point.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 07:55:00 AM by Mirror Image »
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Offline Christo

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2020, 12:15:48 PM »
Last time I checked, yes  :laugh:

Good to know, hadn't realized it before (actually hate this misty hiding behind our masks, but OK): bien étonné de se trouver ensemble, Papy.   ;D
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2020, 12:53:17 PM »
Hello John!

I tried to explain the allure that Hahn's music has for me in the OP of this thread (probably no too eloquently  :-[).

"... I haven't answered your question: what does his music sound like? We're in a world that rejects any sort of harmonic innovation, but that is well crafted and has a definite charm, even if at times it turns (deliberately) into pastiche and, at others (seldom), can almost be kitsch   I'd say it's completely imbued by nostalgia, pleasant to the ear,  and deliberately démodé by the time it was composed. But, with these features, Hahn does have a very personal style, which could not be confused with that of any other composer. The sound world of a certain period  in France that had ended long before Hahn stopped composing, and directed to some social circles ("le grand monde") whose influence had also vanished by then."

Reading this now, I think there's a couple of things to add (or to amend). Firstly, it is clear that harmonic innovation is certainly not Reynaldo's thing, but there are (in his late chamber music) some very subtle and rather accomplished harmonic twists to be found, which add interest to the music. And, as our former GMGer Spineur (whose departure is much lamented) points out in this same thread, Hahn was a master in setting (usually top-quality) French poetry to music. Some of his mélodies are IMHO among the best in the whole repertoire. Finally, there's an undeniable melodic gift.

Apart from this, as also mentioned in the OP, there's some extra-musical aspects that make Reynaldo's figure alluring to me: we both come from a similar cultural background, and and are attracted to a certain milieu (the whole Proust world and French artistic circles of the early 20th century). He, of course, became an integral part of that world, why I have not  ;).

Where I disagree with you is in the lack of individuality in his music. The features I try to highlight in his style do make for a very personal voice, unmistakably his.

Having said all this, you're probably right: Hahn doesn't seem to be the type of composer you would "get into", but I think you shouldn't dismiss him completely either.

Excellent post, Rafael. Needless to say, Hahn is among my favorite 20th century composers. I simply love characters like him, Wolf-Ferrari, Paul Graener or Sergei Bortkiewicz who went on writing music which could have been written 50 years before and did it not because of any reactionarism opposed in principle to modernism but because they could do no other.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 01:09:23 PM by Florestan »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2020, 12:55:19 PM »
Thanks for the well-considered response, Rafael. I think your last sentence pretty much sums it for me. His harmonic language just isn’t attractive to me or, rather the way he constructs his harmonies. Poulenc wasn’t harmonically adventurous either compared to his contemporaries, but it’s the way he constructed these harmonic sequences in conjunction with his incredible melodic gift that I find attractive. I now remember what I heard of Hahn's: the Violin Sonata and the song cycle, Les feuilles blessées. I believe I have heard a few of the orchestral works, too, but I can’t remember those now. It’s difficult not to dismiss a composer that doesn’t do much for me, but I suppose I’ll try again at some point.

Given that lately you've been into solo piano music, you should try Le rossignol eperdu. If it doesn't do anything for you, then kiss Hahn good bye and that's it.  :)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2020, 01:10:07 PM by Florestan »
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

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Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2020, 01:58:49 PM »
Ritter and others here,

Have you heard any of the recordings from this album?  It was my first (and so far only) exposure to Hahn's works.  Alas, I haven't heard any other types of music from him...am curious now!

I love Susan Graham's voice and interpretations of Hahn (and other French and non-French works/composers).   :)



Best wishes,

PD

Offline Florestan

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2020, 02:04:09 PM »
Ritter and others here,

Have you heard any of the recordings from this album?  It was my first (and so far only) exposure to Hahn's works.  Alas, I haven't heard any other types of music from him...am curious now!

I love Susan Graham's voice and interpretations of Hahn (and other French and non-French works/composers).   :)



Best wishes,

PD

Have it, love it.

Hugs.
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2020, 02:08:45 PM »

Offline Florestan

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2020, 02:13:44 PM »
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2020, 07:40:12 PM »
Given that lately you've been into solo piano music, you should try Le rossignol eperdu. If it doesn't do anything for you, then kiss Hahn good bye and that's it.  :)

I’ll give that work a listen, Andrei. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Offline ritter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2020, 01:15:48 AM »
Ritter and others here,

Have you heard any of the recordings from this album?  It was my first (and so far only) exposure to Hahn's works.  Alas, I haven't heard any other types of music from him...am curious now!

I love Susan Graham's voice and interpretations of Hahn (and other French and non-French works/composers).   :)



Best wishes,

PD
I agree with Florestan. This is an excellent overview of Hahn's songs, beautifully  performed by Graham and Vignoles.   :)

Best regards,
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 04:30:47 AM by ritter »
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Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2020, 03:51:48 AM »
Try this:



and let us know what you think.
I'll see if I can round up a copy to listen to--thanks for the rec!

PD

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2020, 03:58:16 AM »
I agree with Florestan. This is am excellent overview of Hahn's songs, beuatifully  performed by Graham and Vignoles.   :)

Best regards,

Happy to hear that the founder of this thread enjoys this album too!

A number of years ago, I heard her perform Berlioz's "Les Nuits d'Été"....wonderful!  A special evening.   :)

PD

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2020, 04:16:53 PM »
I've never heard a note of Hahn's music, but hearing of Pierre Boulez's passionate dismissal of his music has piqued my curiosity. Usually, the composers he felt strongly about, good or bad, are worth a listen or two ;D

To all of the Hahn fans out there—what are two or three of his essential works? I also do not understand the thread title and would be curious if someone could explain it to me... what do water jets have to do with Reynaldo Hahn?  ::)

Offline Florestan

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #56 on: February 27, 2020, 01:15:07 AM »
To all of the Hahn fans out there—what are two or three of his essential works?

I'll give you three essential recordings instead:



Quote
I also do not understand the thread title and would be curious if someone could explain it to me... what do water jets have to do with Reynaldo Hahn?  ::)

On one occasion, the poet Paul Verlaine wept when hearing Hahn's setting of some of his poems. The poet Stephane Mallarme, a witness of that event, wrote on the spot the following stanza:

                                Le pleur qui chante au langage
                                Du poète, Reynaldo
                                Hahn, tendrement le dégage
                                Comme en l'allée un jet d'eau.
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline ritter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #57 on: February 27, 2020, 02:57:56 AM »
I've never heard a note of Hahn's music, but hearing of Pierre Boulez's passionate dismissal of his music has piqued my curiosity. Usually, the composers he felt strongly about, good or bad, are worth a listen or two ;D

To all of the Hahn fans out there—what are two or three of his essential works? I also do not understand the thread title and would be curious if someone could explain it to me... what do water jets have to do with Reynaldo Hahn?  ::)
I'll give you three essential recordings instead:



On one occasion, the poet Paul Verlaine wept when hearing Hahn's setting of some of his poems. The poet Stephane Mallarme, a witness of that event, wrote on the spot the following stanza:

                                Le pleur qui chante au langage
                                Du poète, Reynaldo
                                Hahn, tendrement le dégage
                                Comme en l'allée un jet d'eau.

I second Florestan's recommendations (even I'm not particularly fond of Le rossignol éperdu myself). The recital by Susan Graham is an excellent survey of Reynaldo's mélodies, beautifully sung and played. The Piano Quartet is one of Hahn's best chamber compositions, and if you like it and wish to explore that facet of the composer's output further, then the Piano Quintet and the String Quartet No. 2 are also worthwhile:

 

And then there's Le bal de Béatrice d'Este (available in several recordings, including the one pictured a couple of posts above--in reply to a question by Pohjolas Daughter).

But, I insist, Florestan's recommendations are an excellent entry point to Hahn's music.

Regards,

« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 03:44:50 AM by ritter »
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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #58 on: February 27, 2020, 04:21:25 AM »
Great! Thanks, Florestan, and Ritter. I am glad y'all provided recordings rather than just works so I know exactly what to look out for. That Hyperion disc with the chamber music looks really good, I'll sample that one first, and then check out some of the songs—it seems he's primarily remembered as a song-writer, no? That Susan Graham disc can be had really cheap so I think that will be one of the first to check out, too.

edit: OK, yes. I'm definitely getting this Susan Graham disc. I love what I'm hearing.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 04:27:22 AM by vers la flamme »

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Reynaldo (Hahn's) jet d'eau
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2020, 04:23:18 AM »
Great! Thanks, Florestan, and Ritter. I am glad y'all provided recordings rather than just works so I know exactly what to look out for. That Hyperion disc with the chamber music looks really good, I'll sample that one first, and then check out some of the songs—it seems he's primarily remembered as a song-writer, no? That Susan Graham disc can be had really cheap so I think that will be one of the first to check out, too.

edit: OK, yes. I'm definitely getting this Susan Graham disc. I love what I'm hearing.
Yeah!   ;D

I'll have to fish around on youtube (and via inter-library loan) to see if I can listen to some of his chamber works.

PD