If you had the power to raise the dead...

Started by ZauberdrachenNr.7, May 30, 2015, 01:26:09 PM

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Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Abuelo Igor on May 31, 2015, 02:29:51 AM
Fascinating idea, because he would have managed to squeeze it all into 20 minutes...

And finding a libretto would be a snap - any short story would do! ;D


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

springrite

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on May 31, 2015, 08:09:24 AM
And finding a libretto would be a snap - any short story would do! ;D

I will ask Kimi if she'd be interested. Once I asked her to tell me a story, and she was apparently not interested, so she said:

"Once upon a time... The End!"
Do what I must do, and let what must happen happen.

vandermolen

#42
Bruckner: complete Symphony 9
George Butterworth: carry on composing, maybe write a Symphony.
Elgar: complete Symphony 3 (although I like the reconstructed version)
Vaughan Williams: officially restore the excisions made to A London Symphony in 1936.
Moeran: complete Symphony 2.
Tubin: complete Symphony 11
Glazunov: complete Symphony 9.
Sibelius: get on with the 8th Symphony
Lyadov: stop being so indolent and get on with writing a Symphony.
:)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Abuelo Igor

Quote from: springrite on May 31, 2015, 08:11:47 AM
I will ask Kimi if she'd be interested. Once I asked her to tell me a story, and she was apparently not interested, so she said:

"Once upon a time... The End!"

When the dinosaur woke up, he was still there.
L'enfant, c'est moi.

Brian

Quote from: Jo498 on May 31, 2015, 07:39:18 AM
Might a living Mozart have been too strong an influence or too great to follow? A headstrong young person as Beethoven apparently was might have gone in a different direction, e.g. Mozart might have focussed on opera and choral music and Beethoven on virtuoso piano music (as he did to some extent in the 1790s anyway). As a piano performer Mozart very probably would have been surpassed by youngsters like Hummel and Beethoven. Mozart's nasty remarks about Clementi (=tasteless virtuoso) might show that he felt that he had not kept up with the newest virtuoso style even then. There are also critical remarks by Beethoven about Mozart's piano playing (not sure if authentic), supposedly not cantabile enough. Of course, Mozart as a composer was extremely flexible and could have adapted any new stylistic development but at this stage he might not have wanted to.

I honestly think that Beethoven would have had more influence on Mozart than vice versa. Nothing could have stopped Beethoven from becoming Beethoven, I think.

Brian

Quote from: sanantonio on May 31, 2015, 07:09:34 AM
More GershwinPorgy & Bess provides a tantalizing taste of what might have been.
If Gershwin had lived more of the full span of the American century, he could have had an unimaginable impact on our culture...

vandermolen

Quote from: Brian on May 31, 2015, 10:19:45 AM
If Gershwin had lived more of the full span of the American century, he could have had an unimaginable impact on our culture...
Very much agree with you - a great loss. Robert Kurka is another one who died much too young.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Ken B

Quote from: springrite on May 31, 2015, 07:19:24 AM
I just like to have one of  the greatest composers of all time being alive through my lifetime.

I'm sure Philip appreciates the sentiment.  >:D

Madiel

Quote from: ZauberdrachenNr.7 on May 31, 2015, 06:01:31 AM
Schubert is drawing most of the attn. in this thread - is it because of the composer's extraordinary talents or the poignancy of his early end? Both? (his death is arguably even more compelling than Mozart's)

For me it is, as I put it, he was "just getting interesting". In some cases of composers who died young, there is speculation they could have been excellent in their maturity. In the case of Schubert I feel that I already know he WAS excellent in his maturity, but as things stand there is a great imbalance between mature works and student ones. Imagine a world where instrumental works in the D.500s and D.600s are seen as the first signs of adult quality, not as being a career already half gone.

I suspect that if Schubert had lived somewhat longer the situation with teenage Schubert would be much the same as teenage Mozart (and arguably teenage Chopin and some others): listened to and appreciated and marvelled at for its precocious quality, but generally put aside for the mature works from around the late D.700s onwards.
Every single post on the forum is unnecessary. Including the ones that are interesting or useful.

Holden

Chopin was also, like Schubert, starting to get really interesting towards the end. I wonder if he might have branched out into Chamber works or even better, Lied and other vocal pieces. He never really got to grips with orchestral music during his lifetime and maybe with experience and his group of friends to guide him (Liszt, Schumann) might have developed this as well.
Cheers

Holden

Sammy

Quote from: Jo498 on May 31, 2015, 06:01:18 AM
I could agree with that but still my "Raise dead" spell would benefit many other composers far more, so I do not think JSB is an *obvious* candidate

I think Bach would be an obvious selection for a few operas.

PerfectWagnerite

My vote goes to Purcell, who died at the age of 36. The most gifted composer England has ever known (sorry RVW and Elgar) who has a innate knack for drama. Personally Dido and Aeneas is one of the great chamber operas ever and packs quite a punch in its short 60 minutes.


Jo498

But Bach did not write no operas because he died too young! He was apparently not interested in the genre and had so many other duties. Whatever the reasons, I do not think a Bach living 10 years longer in good health would have composed an opera. Much more likely WTK III or Clavierübung VI which can be played forwards, backwards, upside down and encodes the precise date of the Second Coming in some symbolical fashion...
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Jo498

Quote from: orfeo on May 31, 2015, 02:20:36 PM
I suspect that if Schubert had lived somewhat longer the situation with teenage Schubert would be much the same as teenage Mozart (and arguably teenage Chopin and some others): listened to and appreciated and marvelled at for its precocious quality, but generally put aside for the mature works from around the late D.700s onwards.

But isn't this more or less the case?
Apart from the early symphonies and that these are recorded by everyone and his dog is a fairly recent phenomenon. Until the mid-20th century of the early 6 only the 5th was regularly played. (Actually, even the mature piano sonatas were not common, Schnabel and Serkin being among the first pianists who regularly played them.)
The teenage string quartets are not better known than teenage Mozart, same for most of the early sonatas and fragments.
It's somewhat different with Lieder but I think he was about 17-18 when he composed "Erlkönig", one of the first really great ones.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

DaveF

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 31, 2015, 05:59:07 AM
Lili Boulanger and Nielsen certainly qualify here as I believe both composers would have continued to do great things in music.

Yes, please - can we have the three missing wind concerti and the mysterious Commotio no.2?

Quote from: PerfectWagnerite on May 31, 2015, 04:18:55 PM
My vote goes to Purcell, who died at the age of 36. The most gifted composer England has ever known (sorry RVW and Elgar) who has a innate knack for drama.

And I'll have Gibbons.

Lots of votes for Webern above, but no mention of Berg?  A mere boy at 50 - although I don't know whether I would wish WWII onto him.
"All the world is birthday cake" - George Harrison

The new erato

I would raise a scribe that could trancribe another copy of Monterverdi's masterpiece Arianna, now lost.

Jo498

Quote from: Brian on May 31, 2015, 10:18:58 AM
I honestly think that Beethoven would have had more influence on Mozart than vice versa. Nothing could have stopped Beethoven from becoming Beethoven, I think.
You have a point. Not sure about Beethoven influencing an older Mozart but even the real Mozart dead in 1791 undoubtedly was a towering figure for Beethoven and he did not stop Beethoven becoming Beethoven.

But I think Mozart could and probably would have become even more important for German language opera had he lived longer, certainly for Weber and probably Schubert as well.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

ZauberdrachenNr.7

Quote from: Jo498 on May 31, 2015, 11:10:46 PM
Apart from the early symphonies and that these are recorded by everyone and his dog ...

:) :D ;D Well, almost everyone and his dog, my hound preferred Stockhausen.

ZauberdrachenNr.7

Quote from: DaveF on May 31, 2015, 11:28:49 PM
Yes, please - can we have the three missing wind concerti and the mysterious Commotio no.2?


Good ideas, both!

Jo498

Never heard of the Commotio, but the other wind concerti really are a  great loss (especially because there are not many good concerti for bassoon or horn, after Mozart).
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal