Six favourite unknown symphonies

Started by vandermolen, June 12, 2015, 10:32:22 PM

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vandermolen

#20
June 14, 2015, 12:31:29 AM
Quote from: Christo on June 13, 2015, 09:00:15 AM
Considering that Havergal Brian, Stanley Bate, Arnold Cooke, Matthijs Vermeulen or even the indominatable Alf Hurum are rather well-known in these pages,  :) I opt for:

Charles Tournemire, Symphony no. 6 'Bible' (1918)
Kaljo Raid, Symphony No. 1 (1944)
Herman D. Koppel, Symphony No. 3 (1945)
Ruth Gipps, Symphony No. 2 (1945)
Ulvi Cemâl Erkin, Symphony No. 2 (1958)
John Kinsella, Symphony No. 7 (1999)
This could have been my choice too although I don't know the Erkin. The Raid is, I agree, one of the great unknown symphonies, in the spirit of Tubin and Lilburn (Symphony 1) I think. Must listen to the Koppel again which I remember enjoying enormously. I also love that Gipps symphony although I think that No.4 is her masterpiece. Sadly there is no commercial CD available.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#21
June 14, 2015, 12:52:46 AM Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 01:14:36 AM by vandermolen
Today's list:

Damase: Symphony (eloquent, civilised and moving at the end)
Blomdahl: Symphony 1 (I prefer it to the better known No.3 'Facetter')
Clifford: Symphony 1940 (epic wartime defiance - written during 'The Blitz' on London)
Bainton: Symphony 3 (moving - coming to terms with the death of his wife)
Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony 3 'Westmorland' (a poignant memorial to his son killed in the Second World War)
Eshpai: Symphony 5 (powerful, soviet-era and war-related)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

#22
June 14, 2015, 01:42:25 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 14, 2015, 12:52:46 AMToday's list:

Damase: Symphony (eloquent, civilised and moving at the end)
Blomdahl: Symphony 1 (I prefer it to the better known No.3 'Facetter')
Clifford: Symphony 1940 (epic wartime defiance - written during 'The Blitz' on London)
Bainton: Symphony 3 (moving - coming to terms with the death of his wife)
Armstrong Gibbs: Symphony 3 'Westmorland' (a poignant memorial to his son killed in the Second World War)
Eshpai: Symphony 5 (powerful, soviet-era and war-related)

This, in turn, could have been my list, though I don't know Damase.  ;) You're right: the Fourth is Ruth Gipps' masterpiece, but we only have a radio recording. Yet the Second has a deeply moving 'intimate' side to it that makes it even more special.
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Mr Bloom

#23
June 14, 2015, 07:00:00 AM
When does unknown is actually unknown?

I had never heard of Ruth Gipps : she loves her RVW, doesn't she? I have some trouble with all these post-war british symphonies. They're good, but they all sound a little bit the same. Same thing with a lot of soviets composers.

Quote from: Christo on June 13, 2015, 09:00:15 AM
Charles Tournemire, Symphony no. 6 'Bible' (1918)
Where did you get that subtitle ? It's the only Tournemire symphony that actually doesn't have a subtitle.

vandermolen

#24
June 14, 2015, 08:17:01 AM
Quote from: Christo on June 14, 2015, 01:42:25 AM
This, in turn, could have been my list, though I don't know Damase.  ;) You're right: the Fourth is Ruth Gipps' masterpiece, but we only have a radio recording. Yet the Second has a deeply moving 'intimate' side to it that makes it even more special.

Yes, I know what you mean about the moving intimate side of Symphony 2. Something to do with reunion after the war if I remember correctly.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Christo

#25
June 14, 2015, 10:48:13 AM
Quote from: Mr Bloom on June 14, 2015, 07:00:00 AMWhere did you get that subtitle ? It's the only Tournemire symphony that actually doesn't have a subtitle.

Two Wikipedia entries, the Dutch and the Italian, have it. And also my New Grove's Dictionary of Music. Could be a mistake: Tournemire drew the texts from the Bible, so maybe some-one mistook that fact ('on Biblical texts') for its title? Otherwise: he could certainly have named it this way. Perhaps you can help us out?
See: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tournemire + https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Tournemire#Symfonie.C3.ABn


... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

Mr Bloom

#26
June 14, 2015, 11:40:17 AM
The official french catalog lists the symphonies as followed :

Symphonie "Romantique"
IIe Symphonie "Ouessant"
"Moscou (1913)"
"Pages symphoniques"
Ve Symphonie (ou "de la Montagne")
VIe Symphonie
VIIe Symphonie "Les Danses de la Vie"
VIIIe Symphonie "La Symphonie du Triomphe de la Mort"

Symphonies 3 and 4 are not listed as numbered symphonies, but they were considered as such by Tournemire.
The original manuscript for the sixth symphony doesn't seem to have any subtitle. The subtitle "Bible" is most likely not Tournemire's subtitle.

vandermolen

#27
February 27, 2023, 12:13:45 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on June 12, 2015, 10:32:22 PMSauguet: Expiatoire, Symphony 1
Egge: Symphony 1
Kinsella: Symphony 7
Rootham: Symphony 1
Stanley Bate: Symphony 3
Hurum:Symphony

These are all 20th Century but you can select from any century as I am feeling generous today.   8)
NEW LIST (8 years later)

Gipps: Symphony 4
L. Berkeley: Symphony 1
Eshpai: Symphony 5
Rootham: Symphony 2
Stanley Bate: Symphony 4
Daniel Jones: Symphony 4 'In Memory of Dylan Thomas'
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Symphonic Addict

#28
February 27, 2023, 02:16:09 PM Last Edit: February 27, 2023, 07:19:38 PM by Løvfald
Not 6, but 10 instead:

Finn Mortensen: Symphony, op. 5 (the greatest Norwegian symphony IMO)
Zygmunt Noskowski: Symphony No. 3 'From Spring to Spring'
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Paul Graener: Symphony in D minor 'Schmied Schmerz'
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Frederic Cliffe: Symphony No. 1
Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia ecologica'
Stjepan Sulek: Symphony No. 6
Jan Hanus: Symphony No. 3
Czeslaw Marek: Sinfonia, op. 28
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

vandermolen

#29
February 28, 2023, 11:22:36 AM Last Edit: February 28, 2023, 11:24:59 AM by vandermolen Reason: add information
Quote from: Løvfald on February 27, 2023, 02:16:09 PMNot 6, but 10 instead:

Finn Mortensen: Symphony, op. 5 (the greatest Norwegian symphony IMO)
Zygmunt Noskowski: Symphony No. 3 'From Spring to Spring'
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Paul Graener: Symphony in D minor 'Schmied Schmerz'
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Frederic Cliffe: Symphony No. 1
Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia ecologica'
Stjepan Sulek: Symphony No. 6
Jan Hanus: Symphony No. 3
Czeslaw Marek: Sinfonia, op. 28
Nice list Cesar - definitely agree about the Mortensen.
I'd like to add Grace Williams's 2nd Symphony to my own list.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Symphonic Addict

#30
February 28, 2023, 12:50:43 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on February 28, 2023, 11:22:36 AMNice list Cesar - definitely agree about the Mortensen.
I'd like to add Grace Williams's 2nd Symphony to my own list.


I have good memories of the Williams, a very fine symphony.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

kyjo

#31
March 03, 2023, 05:57:34 PM
Quote from: Løvfald on February 27, 2023, 02:16:09 PMNot 6, but 10 instead:

Finn Mortensen: Symphony, op. 5 (the greatest Norwegian symphony IMO)
Zygmunt Noskowski: Symphony No. 3 'From Spring to Spring'
August de Boeck: Symphony in G major
Paul Graener: Symphony in D minor 'Schmied Schmerz'
Halvor Haug: Symphony No. 2
Frederic Cliffe: Symphony No. 1
Torbjörn Lundquist: Symphony No. 4 'Sinfonia ecologica'
Stjepan Sulek: Symphony No. 6
Jan Hanus: Symphony No. 3
Czeslaw Marek: Sinfonia, op. 28

Great list, Cesar - I'll follow your lead! ;)

Eyvind Alnaes: Symphony no. 1 in C minor
Volkmar Andreae: Symphony in C major
Jean-Michel Damase: Symphonie
Jesús Guridi: Sinfonia pirenaica
Viktor Kalabis: Symphony no. 2 Sinfonia pacis
Aarre Merikanto: Symphony no. 2 in A major War Symphony
Ludolf Nielsen: Symphony no. 3 in C major
Nikolai Peiko: Symphony no. 4 in B minor
Yngve Sköld: Symphony no. 2
Robert Ward: Symphony no. 2
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

#32
March 04, 2023, 02:01:16 PM
Quote from: kyjo on March 03, 2023, 05:57:34 PMGreat list, Cesar - I'll follow your lead! ;)

Eyvind Alnaes: Symphony no. 1 in C minor
Volkmar Andreae: Symphony in C major
Jean-Michel Damase: Symphonie
Jesús Guridi: Sinfonia pirenaica
Viktor Kalabis: Symphony no. 2 Sinfonia pacis
Aarre Merikanto: Symphony no. 2 in A major War Symphony
Ludolf Nielsen: Symphony no. 3 in C major
Nikolai Peiko: Symphony no. 4 in B minor
Yngve Sköld: Symphony no. 2
Robert Ward: Symphony no. 2
Yes Yes Yes for Kalabis and Damase  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo

#33
March 05, 2023, 07:50:57 AM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 04, 2023, 02:01:16 PMYes Yes Yes for Kalabis and Damase  :)

I knew you'd second those choices, Jeffrey! ;) I've sampled a few other works by Kalabis (such as his 4th Symphony), and have mostly found them disappointingly "arid" compared to the wonderfully gripping and humane 2nd Symphony. I do recall his Harpsichord Concerto being rather cool, though.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

#34
March 05, 2023, 01:40:52 PM
Quote from: kyjo on March 05, 2023, 07:50:57 AMI knew you'd second those choices, Jeffrey! ;) I've sampled a few other works by Kalabis (such as his 4th Symphony), and have mostly found them disappointingly "arid" compared to the wonderfully gripping and humane 2nd Symphony. I do recall his Harpsichord Concerto being rather cool, though.
Also the Merikanto, Guridi, Skold and Ward Kyle - all great choices.
I have the Kalabis symphonies box set but it's No.2 that stands out for me. I also like the harpsichord concerto.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Karl Henning

#35
March 05, 2023, 03:45:51 PM
I'm alive to the fact that many GMG'ers can easily "out-obscure" me, so I list these with an "if these even count as unknown" disclaimer.

Antheil, Jazz Symphony.
Louis Andriessen, Symphony for Open Strings.
Hovhaness, Symphony for Metal Orchestra.
Malipiero, Sinfonia in uno tempo.
Arnold Rosner, Symphony № 5 (Missa sine cantoribus)
Stefan Wolpe, Symphony
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

kyjo

#36
March 06, 2023, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: vandermolen on March 05, 2023, 01:40:52 PMAlso the Merikanto, Guridi, Skold and Ward Kyle - all great choices.
I have the Kalabis symphonies box set but it's No.2 that stands out for me. I also like the harpsichord concerto.

Do you know Andreae's Symphony in C major and Ludolf Nielsen's 3rd Symphony, Jeffrey? I suspect you'd enjoy them both very much. ;)
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

kyjo

#37
March 06, 2023, 03:13:55 PM
Quote from: Karl Tirebiter Henning on March 05, 2023, 03:45:51 PMI'm alive to the fact that many GMG'ers can easily "out-obscure" me, so I list these with an "if these even count as unknown" disclaimer.

Antheil, Jazz Symphony.
Louis Andriessen, Symphony for Open Strings.
Hovhaness, Symphony for Metal Orchestra.
Malipiero, Sinfonia in uno tempo.
Arnold Rosner, Symphony № 5 (Missa sine cantoribus)
Stefan Wolpe, Symphony

Well, they're all unknown to me except for the Antheil! I really ought to listen to the Rosner, especially.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

vandermolen

#38
March 07, 2023, 10:59:33 AM
Quote from: kyjo on March 06, 2023, 03:13:05 PMDo you know Andreae's Symphony in C major and Ludolf Nielsen's 3rd Symphony, Jeffrey? I suspect you'd enjoy them both very much. ;)
Thanks Kyle - I think that I do but need to fish them out  :)
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Skogwald

#39
March 09, 2023, 05:42:10 AM
I have to try every symphony from this thread!

Here are two absolute masterpieces of Post-Sibelius Finnish music that should be more widely known:

Leevi Madetoja - Symphony 3
Joonas Kokkonen - Symphony 4
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