Can you discern a persons nature from the genre of classical music they like ?

[starrynight]

I'm glad some are going down the line now that making too much of a connection between the music and yourself isn't that helpful.  It's something that people do all the time.  Why else do you see all the threads about 'why you like your favourite music' on music forums?  This thread fits into that whole theme.  The standard answer that people love is that they have a strong connection to some music because it somehow represents their essence and is inevitable in some way, and it's then seen as validating in their eyes why they like some music and not others.  Explode that and music is simply music, something to be understood and enjoyed on its own terms.  Nothing so mysterious and unquestionable at all.

[Elgarian]

Háry János has a big orchestral sneeze in it. In Hungarian folklore, a sneeze means something, but I found only conflicting information about it online. The way I heard it when I was a kid, whatever followed a sneeze was true, no matter how outlandish. In the Wiki article on the opera, the sneeze supposedly follows the tall tale as confirmation of the improbabilities. In a program note I found online, the sneeze precedes the story, but indicates that what follows is not to be taken literally.

Just some struggling with the concept of humor, there, I guess. Anyway, a sneeze indicates either that an improbable story is about to be related or confirms/asserts the veracity of the tall tale after it's been told. I couldn't find which option was true. (Maybe if someone had sneezed as I was reading one explanation or other, I would know.)

Super tale, thank you. I didn't know any of this.

Now I don't know whether to laugh or sneeze.

[Karl Henning]

Keep the hankie on hand for either contingency.

[Elgarian]

The standard answer that people love is that they have a strong connection to some music because it somehow represents their essence and is inevitable in some way, and it's then seen as validating in their eyes why they like some music and not others.  Explode that and music is simply music, something to be understood and enjoyed on its own terms.  Nothing so mysterious and unquestionable at all.

Well I can't speak for anyone else but this doesn't fit my circumstances at all. I would urgently distinguish between the music I 'like', and the kind of musical response that I was referring to in my post. To talk about 'liking' Wagner, or Elgar (for me) would be entirely to misrepresent the nature of the response.

When I say I 'like' something, I'm talking about taste, in the way that I like cheese, or damson jam, or the smell of coffee, or a tune I enjoy whistling, or the colour blue. But these musical experiences I'm referring to (and there are parallels in the visual arts as well) aren't like that. Initially they come as revelations, seemingly bringing significant insight into who I am and how I relate to the world, as if they're windows opening onto a new landscape that's both strange, and yet somehow familiar once I've seen it.

The fact that you don't think it's mysterious clearly shows we're not talking about the same kind of experience. It's infinitely mysterious, to me, and has been all my adult life. Hence my curiosity about it, and the relationship between me and it, and what it signifies.

[San Antone]

Anyway, with some trepidation, here goes:

1) Why would you want to try to discern a person's nature from the kind of classical music they like?

Generally we get to know people by hanging out with them. It's neither efficient nor reliable, but I can't think of any better way of doing it.

Such connections between "character" and e.g. musical preferences are fairly obvious from the first person (introspective) perspective. It's not only an important part of me that I am into classical music in general but also that I love Beethoven's music and do not care much for most of Puccini's etc.  So in the daily practice of living, forming social relationships etc. we all seem to believe that hanging out with people who share some of our (e.g.) musical preferences is more likely to lead to friendship or a nice time in pleasant company or even to romantic relationships because we assume that these people will also more likely to be compatible with us in many other ways.

+1

[Karl Henning]

"Can you discern a person's nature from the genre of classical music they like?"

Yes, I can; and have I ever got serious questions for the lot of you.  Except for the Haydnistas.

[Elgarian]

Except for the Haydnistas.

Chicken!

[Karl Henning]

Others abide our question.  They are free   0:)      

[Jubal Slate]

Can you discern my nature by how many fingers I am holding up?

[Florestan]

Can you discern my nature by how many fingers I am holding up?

One finger: you are rude.

Two fingers: you are Churchill.

More than two fingers: I don´t know.

[Cato]

Now I don't know whether to laugh or sneeze.

Gesundhaha!   

Well I can't speak for anyone else but this doesn't fit my circumstances at all. I would urgently distinguish between the music I 'like', and the kind of musical response that I was referring to in my post. To talk about 'liking' Wagner, or Elgar (for me) would be entirely to misrepresent the nature of the response.

When I say I 'like' something, I'm talking about taste, in the way that I like cheese, or damson jam, or the smell of coffee, or a tune I enjoy whistling, or the colour blue. But these musical experiences I'm referring to (and there are parallels in the visual arts as well) aren't like that. Initially they come as revelations, seemingly bringing significant insight into who I am and how I relate to the world, as if they're windows opening onto a new landscape that's both strange, and yet somehow familiar once I've seen it.

The fact that you don't think it's mysterious clearly shows we're not talking about the same kind of experience. It's infinitely mysterious, to me, and has been all my adult life. Hence my curiosity about it, and the relationship between me and it, and what it signifies.

Your last three words are the haunting ghosts of our existence!  And our exorcists are the arts themselves, offering us magnifying lenses and maps into the terra incognita of our conscious and unconscious personas.

[starrynight]

Well I can't speak for anyone else but this doesn't fit my circumstances at all. I would urgently distinguish between the music I 'like', and the kind of musical response that I was referring to in my post. To talk about 'liking' Wagner, or Elgar (for me) would be entirely to misrepresent the nature of the response.

When I say I 'like' something, I'm talking about taste, in the way that I like cheese, or damson jam, or the smell of coffee, or a tune I enjoy whistling, or the colour blue. But these musical experiences I'm referring to (and there are parallels in the visual arts as well) aren't like that. Initially they come as revelations, seemingly bringing significant insight into who I am and how I relate to the world, as if they're windows opening onto a new landscape that's both strange, and yet somehow familiar once I've seen it.

The fact that you don't think it's mysterious clearly shows we're not talking about the same kind of experience. It's infinitely mysterious, to me, and has been all my adult life. Hence my curiosity about it, and the relationship between me and it, and what it signifies.

Revelations perhaps come when someone is prepared to understand something, in that sense they probably aren't that random.  Not saying you agree or disagree, just putting my point.

I'm not sure how much music changes my feelings about the world, there's the same kind of ignorant arrogant people I often have to meet however beautiful some of the music I may listen to.  Maybe music may crystallise some feelings at times, but I'm not sure I'd say that changes my opinion on anything so much as my experience in the real world would.

Maybe it's just the definition of mysterious we disagree on.  Of course curiosity can be a huge factor in wanting to expand your knowledge and understanding of something.  But knowledge is like the opposite of mystery, and our facing of the unknown before acquiring that knowledge is simply an intended temporary experience and could be more a frustration while it lasts.  Of course some things like different periods and cultures may provide a 'strangeness' at first, but then that's something we adapt to.   And I'm not sure our reactions are that big a mystery.

Looking at your earlier post, I would reply to that that there are quite a few pieces of music across various styles, periods and culture that have appealed to me greatly.  I can't really say it's particularly about me though because many others will feel the same way, and I'm not sure what the link is musically between them either. 

[Elgarian]

Revelations perhaps come when someone is prepared to understand something, in that sense they probably aren't that random.  Not saying you agree or disagree, just putting my point.

I'm not sure how much music changes my feelings about the world, there's the same kind of ignorant arrogant people I often have to meet however beautiful some of the music I may listen to.  Maybe music may crystallise some feelings at times, but I'm not sure I'd say that changes my opinion on anything so much as my experience in the real world would.

Maybe it's just the definition of mysterious we disagree on.  Of course curiosity can be a huge factor in wanting to expand your knowledge and understanding of something.  But knowledge is like the opposite of mystery, and our facing of the unknown before acquiring that knowledge is simply an intended temporary experience and could be more a frustration while it lasts.  Of course some things like different periods and cultures may provide a 'strangeness' at first, but then that's something we adapt to.   And I'm not sure our reactions are that big a mystery.

Looking at your earlier post, I would reply to that that there are quite a few pieces of music across various styles, periods and culture that have appealed to me greatly.  I can't really say it's particularly about me though because many others will feel the same way, and I'm not sure what the link is musically between them either.

The problem is that I can't perceive what you are experiencing when you listen to music that affects you profoundly, any more than you can perceive what happens when I do it. All we can do is talk about it and compare notes, and I think we're struggling in that respect.

But briefly, I'd say that I'm not talking about knowledge at all. I'm talking about perception. I don't acquire knowledge by listening to the music that affects me most deeply; rather, I 'see' something that I couldn't have seen unaided; and the thing I 'see' is something I can't analyse or quantify. It is in essence mysterious. And it has nothing to do with what I 'like'. My liking for butter or jam is just a surface thing. I'd still be me if it were different. But my response to some of Elgar's music (say) has, by contrast, become a defining component of my identity. I can't help that - it's just the way it is for me.

[Moonfish]

.

[starrynight]

Knowledge can be subliminal and mysterious in a way, our brain works on stuff without us even being conscious that it's doing that.  It's working on things we have experienced so we can understand things better when we next experience them.

Identity is a more complex thing I'm sure than what we outwardly project.  The latter is more a conscious decision on our part and could be for various circumstances, inwardly though we are probably more a bundle of contradictions which it may be hard for us to understand.

[Florestan]

Not directly related to the topic at hand but not completely irrelevant either. Interesting anyway.

http://hci.ucsd.edu/102b/readings/WeirdestPeople.pdf

Thanks again, Jo!

[starrynight]

Also if somebody thinks that some music is their natural preference while other types aren't then they might not be inclined to explore that other music for different experiences, so not putting their initial preference within a wider more knowledgable context.

[Jo498]

This is true, but I think "openness to experience" is a fairly common trait among serious lovers of all kinds of music so most of them will at least to some extent a broader spectrum of music.

I do not think that my strong preference for Beethoven's music is innate. Of course it is a product of my biography.
It wasn't even the first music that made me interested in classical. But as soon as I got to know it, it became a favorite as stayed ever since for more than 25 years. (I love lots of other composers but if I have to spontaneously name ONE favorite, it's Beethoven.)

[Elgarian]

I do not think that my strong preference for Beethoven's music is innate. Of course it is a product of my biography.

I'm not sure I'd know how to distinguish the two. I was thinking about what you'd written here, and about the way I'd been expressing myself ... and another image came to mind. When I first heard Elgar's 'Introduction and Allegro for Strings', for instance, it felt as if a hole was being filled. As if I'd been aware of some deficit that I couldn't define or imagine, and this music filled it, saying 'Here, this is what you were waiting for'. The revelation involved discovering what the hunger had been for. Completely different to hearing, say, something by Grieg, or Dvorak. They were lovely, but just not the same sort of impact at all. That's how the Elgar comes to seem especially linked to my identity.

I can see now why I've been wanting to extend the theme a bit in this thread. Interesting to get this far ...

[Florestan]

I do not think that my strong preference for Beethoven's music is innate. Of course it is a product of my biography.

Absolutely. Had you been born in Afghanistan or Papua-The New Guinea, the chances that you ever heard of Beethoven, let alone hear his music, would have been infinitely smaller. And this applies for each and every one of us here at GMG, who are mostly (exclusively?) WEIRD. 

It wasn't even the first music that made me interested in classical. But as soon as I got to know it, it became a favorite as stayed ever since for more than 25 years. (I love lots of other composers but if I have to spontaneously name ONE favorite, it's Beethoven.)

My feelings / thoughts / experience exactly.