Stars and Bars

[Florestan]

There is no article (to my knowledge) that outright talks about secession in this context (meaning using that word). Article 1, Section 10 comes closest when it says that no state will enter into a treaty, alliance, or confederation.

That´s actually quite different than "no State shall leave the Union", isn´t it?

That the matter was settled by the outcome of the Civil War is true, but had the outcome been different, the matter would have been settled differently. A typical case of might is right.

[Karl Henning]

That´s actually quite different than "no State shall leave the Union", isn´t it?

It is;  but the point is not really that there is no specific prohibition spelled out in the Constitution.

I quoted earlier:

When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States.

The discussion earlier in the ruling included the following:

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form, and character, and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these the Union was solemnly declared to "be perpetual." And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained "to form a more perfect Union." It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?

States are not admitted to the Union with a pre-nup "but the State reserves the right to drop out, if e.g. it finds the abolition of slavery to be inconvenient."

[Florestan]

It is;  but the point is not really that there is no specific prohibition spelled out in the Constitution.

I quoted earlier:

The discussion earlier in the ruling included the following:

States are not admitted to the Union with a pre-nup "but the State reserves the right to drop out, if e.g. it finds the abolition of slavery to be inconvenient."

Think of the former Yugoslavia: another federal state with no drop out rights. When Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina declared their independence, the Yugoslavian constitution and the Yugoslavian Union itself ceased to exist by that very fact. Had the Serbians been able to win the ensuing wars, the situation would have been absolutely similar to that of the restored USA post-Civil War: Slovenia, Croatia and BH returned forcibly to the Union and the theory accepted that they had no right to independence to begin with, and must forever, nilly-willy remain in Yugoslavia. The outcome was different, though, because the seccessionists eventually won the wars, and thus nobody today (except perhaps some Serbians) denies that they had the right to secede, or label them as rebelious traitors. Might is right worked in this case as well, only in the opposite direction.

[Ken B]

While we're on the topic let me plug my favourite book on American history.
Arguing About Slavery William Lee Miller

[springrite]

Every time a politician says: "The American people are intelligent people...", I know they will finish the sentence by trying to prove that we are stupid.

[Ken B]

I thought this was very good.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-confederacys-ugly-history-cannot-be-painted-over/2015/06/26/f4443a8e-1c28-11e5-bd7f-4611a60dd8e5_story.html?wpisrc=nl_headlines&wpmm=1

As a Canadian I have always been struck by this coddling of the confederacy. And it often seemed to me that I learned more about it in high school than did most Americans. Anyone who still doubts the war was about slavery should read the short book Scorpion's Sting by Oakes. (Or some of the original documents of the era.)

[Ken B]

This is the thread for flag related stuff I guess.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gaywonk/status/614879774994001920

[Rinaldo]

We can remove the flag from the show. We have the technology...

Or update it!

[Karl Henning]

Those boys are just good friends, I tells ya.

[Sergeant Rock]

[Florestan]

Thread winner!

[Karl Henning]

The South Carolina Senate voted 36-3 to remove the Confederate flag from flying in front of the State House.

[Florestan]

I can hardly wait a similar decision in her case. 

EDIT: Seriously now, it´s pretty obvious that the wounds of the US Civil War are still bleeding and far from being cured, maybe more so than those of the Spanish Civil War...

[Ken B]

The South Carolina Senate voted 36-3 to remove the Confederate flag from flying in front of the State House.

Yes. GOP controlled house. Flag law was signed by Fritz Hollings.