All About Streaming Music Services

[Mandryka]

Based on the comments in this thread I downloaded the premium version of Tidal for a sample while I waited at the airport for my flight. I've always been of the opinion that you can't really hear the difference between 320kbps MP3 and FLAC. Well, I stand corrected. A quick A/B comparison between three different recordings brought this to light. I used the Golub/Kaplan/Carr Schubert piano trios, Anima Eterna's Carmina Burana and Deadmau5's "Album Title Goes Here".

All have excellent modern sound and I could definitely hear quite a difference but quantifying it is a little bit harder. The downside is that Tidal's premium service is three times the price of Spotify's. Something to ponder when the months free trial runs out.

Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.

[Daverz]

The latest problem on Tidal is albums with mixed up track order.  You get a weird interleaving of tracks from different works.

[Mandryka]

The latest problem on Tidal is albums with mixed up track order.  You get a weird interleaving of tracks from different works.

I've had that happen just once, with Chiaroscuro Quartet's Haydn. and it is indeed annoying, but the way I listen (with a tablet interface) it was easily correctable.

[Daverz]

Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.

They use Ogg Vorbis according to their site.  Is the codec noticeably worse than MP3 at the same rate?

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/

[Daverz]

I've had that happen just once, with Chiaroscuro Quartet's Haydn. and it is indeed annoying, but the way I listen (with a tablet interface) it was easily correctable.

I've seen it on dozens of albums in the last few months.

[Mandryka]

They use Ogg Vorbis according to their site.  Is the codec noticeably worse than MP3 at the same rate?

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/

The problem's more likely to do with spotify's equalisation, dynamic range, and maybe their source files.

[Mandryka]

I've seen it on dozens of albums in the last few months.

I'm sure you have, I just came across it for a second time!

[Holden]

Spotify doesn't play 320kbps MP3.

That's interesting, I assumed it was MP3. At what rate does Ogg Vorbis operate on their premium site?

[Mandryka]

That's interesting, I assumed it was MP3. At what rate does Ogg Vorbis operate on their premium site?

320kbps VBR I think.

[San Antone]

In November 2017 ECM announced that its entire catalog would be available to most streaming services.  This represented a 180 degree turnaround from their previous stance of not allowing any of their recordings to be available via streaming services. 

Welcome news, imo.

They added, that while they are still primarily dedicated to the CD and LP formats, their highest priority is for the music to be heard.

Wonderful news, and something I have hoped would happen for as long as streaming has existed.

[flyingdutchman]

Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-ogg-and-mp3/

[aukhawk]

That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same). 
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.

[Mandryka]

That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same). 
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.

So what is it that spotify has done to the music file which makes them sound so much less good?

[Madiel]

That's about how efficient each format is (OGG is slightly more efficient than MP3 - ie, compresses more) but not really about how they sound (probable answer - the same). 
I think when someone hears a difference between Tidal FLAC and Spotify OGG, what they may be hearing is a difference between Tidal and Spotify - but not necessarily a difference between FLAC and OGG.

OGG is a container format. FLAC is a lossless audio format. OGG on its own is meaningless without knowing what format the audio stream within it actually is.

If the audio stream is Ogg Vorbis then it's lossy. Which immediately presents a reason why it might not sound as good as a lossless format.

[Pat B]

OGG is a container format. FLAC is a lossless audio format. OGG on its own is meaningless without knowing what format the audio stream within it actually is.

If the audio stream is Ogg Vorbis then it's lossy. Which immediately presents a reason why it might not sound as good as a lossless format.

Spotify uses Ogg Vorbis for their desktop app and MP3 for mobile devices and (IIRC) their web-based player.

Ogg-FLAC never really took off — I never could see the advantage of that over plain FLAC — and the other codecs that can go into an ogg container are all lossy.

Of course all of this is in flux. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually transition to Opus for everything.

[Madiel]

I thought there was a more recent thread than this, but if so I can't find it.

Has anyone been making use of either Idagio or Primephonic?

Both of them look promising for me, just because the endless nightmare of "guess the metadata" can be dispensed with. You can search for composers and find lists of works and recordings. Each of them differs slightly in how results are presented, but on Idagio you'll get things like recording dates quite readily and can filter by genre (orchestral, chamber etc), and on Primephonic for some composers you can even sort works by opus rather than popularity or alphabetical.

I haven't tried playing anything on either of them yet, but search is so often the real bugbear with other services not dedicated to classical, so this is kind of exciting for the way I explore new music.

[Madiel]

Actually playing something (free/trial service only so far) is also exciting, because both companies fully understand the difference between playing an album and playing a work. If you search by work, both services will very easily say that you want to play that work. If you want to play the whole album, they also show you the album that it comes from and you can go there and choose to play the album as a whole.

Free/trial versions differ somewhat: Primephonic has 14-day trial but appears to have pretty full functionality within that trial. Idagio instead has a free version, but with limits on functionality similar to Spotify, in that you can play exactly what you want on a desktop computer but are restricted to a kind of 'radio' if you choose something on the mobile app version.

Primephonic is also slightly cheaper (noting that I think I won't have a choice to continue using for free), and looks to have a larger library. Idagio has some other special features like exclusive live recordings.

I'm leaning towards Primephonic slightly, but either of these looks pretty darn good and, if all you want is classical, streets ahead of stumbling through the jumble of results and metadata you get on the more general streaming services.

[DavidW]

Has anyone been making use of either Idagio or Primephonic?

Thread resurrection time!  I've used both.  I agree with you that they have superior searching and browsing.  They also have superior curation.  Special live streams... and they provide better royalties to the artists and labels than the other streaming services do.  If I know exactly what I want to listen to I can find it fast in Spotify or Qobuz.  But if I have no idea it would take me along time to find something on those services, but on Primephonic or Idagio I would find something interesting and off my radar in a matter of minutes if not seconds.

[Madiel]

I ended up subscribing to Primephonic.  Yes, the curation is definitely a plus. They give you a variety of ways of just checking out various things.

They do have mistakes in the cataloguing (partly because they're relying on so much metadata given to them by record companies), but another good thing is that they respond quite quickly if I point any errors out.

I've put 3 of my friends onto it and they're all just as happy as I am to discover that such a service exists.

[Daverz]

Actually playing something (free/trial service only so far) is also exciting, because both companies fully understand the difference between playing an album and playing a work.

The LMS plugin for Qobuz allows you to browse and play individual works on an album.  Not all classical albums have this metadata, but most do.