All About Streaming Music Services

[71 dB]

It's not really a blessing.  Imagine if you had 'above average' eyesight and could see infra-red.  You'd have to wear special glasses all the time to filter it out.

Why would you want to filter out infra-red sight? You'd know the temperature of things by just looking.   

[Madiel]

You'd know it constantly whether you wanted to or not. Walls wouldn't work as intended. Etc etc.

[Brian]

Bumping this thread after seven months to ask if anyone has a recommendation of Idagio vs. Qobuz. It looks like Qobuz has updated or altered its plans/tiers since the last discussion last year.

On the surface I see the following major differences:
- Idagio has a library of live concert videos/streams
- Qobuz has discounts on download-to-buy (in the higher tier plan)
- Qobuz has all the other musical genres in addition to classical

I plan to use whichever app on both Mac and Android devices. (I'm a monster.  ) Playlists would be nice but are not essential. Listening offline (or "save to stream later") is definitely important for the mobile app.

Are there major differences in label choice? Qobuz allows you to poke around the collection before buying, and I am very impressed with the obscure out-of-print stuff they have from labels like Supraphon and Pablo (for jazz). But there's no Hyperion.

[DavidW]

In Idagio you have to pay more for the tier with the concerts, or pay a la carte from the mid-tier.  But the neat part is that 80% of the revenue from ticket sales go to the artists.

Both support playlists and offline listening.  The search engine works well for both, but browsing is definitely better on Idagio.

I find that the key difference is that Qobuz heavily curates new releases.  Even when you search for something to listen to the more recent releases are featured as the most popular.  Idagio curates new releases but also show love to the classics.

[Madiel]

You will not find Hyperion anywhere.

I'm pretty happy with Idagio. In some ways I think it's actually better than Primephonic was before it died - arguably more effective searching on an iPhone, though my friend with a Samsung phone discovered she wasn't getting the same functionality of fast searching as you type that I was.

But I can't compare because Qobuz wasn't  available to me for so long that I never tried it. My alternate is Deezer (including for classical labels missing from Idagio. One I'm aware of is Supraphon)

[Daverz]

You will not find Hyperion anywhere.

I'm pretty happy with Idagio. In some ways I think it's actually better than Primephonic was before it died - arguably more effective searching on an iPhone, though my friend with a Samsung phone discovered she wasn't getting the same functionality of fast searching as you type that I was.

But I can't compare because Qobuz wasn't  available to me for so long that I never tried it. My alternate is Deezer (including for classical labels missing from Idagio. One I'm aware of is Supraphon)

I can report that Qobuz/US has a very deep Supraphon catalog.  They even have multiple older issues of the same recordings, if for some reason you are nostalgic for the old Supraphon Crystal Collection.

[Madiel]

I do wonder how something like Qobuz handles classical metadata, as a service not dedicated to classical. Does it have composer pages akin to artist pages? Idagio has both. I can readily go to a composer's page and then search/filter their works or albums that include that composer.

This to me was one of the huge benefits of Primephonic and Idagio, understanding that classical metadata is not just about title and artist. Which is also why the closure of Primephonic was a tragedy, Apple Music is one of the very WORST services at handling a search for a classical work. Apple Classical is yet to turn up.

Frankly, having a bigger catalogue is of no practical use if you can't actually find the recording you're hoping is available.

Edit: I can find multiple articles all indicating that Qobuz is better at classical metadata than any other generalist streaming service (and agreeing with me that Apple is appalling). But those articles also tend to say that (as of a year or so ago when Primephonic was still alive) Idagio had the best search functionality of anyone. So the question still stands. How good is Qobuz going to be at enabling me to find a recording of a relatively obscure Beethoven or Mozart piece that I'm curious about hearing? Because if it can't point me to the right piece and I have to scroll past famous Beethoven or Mozart indefinitely, it's not good enough.

[Daverz]

I do wonder how something like Qobuz handles classical metadata, as a service not dedicated to classical. Does it have composer pages akin to artist pages? Idagio has both. I can readily go to a composer's page and then search/filter their works or albums that include that composer.

This to me was one of the huge benefits of Primephonic and Idagio, understanding that classical metadata is not just about title and artist. Which is also why the closure of Primephonic was a tragedy, Apple Music is one of the very WORST services at handling a search for a classical work. Apple Classical is yet to turn up.

Frankly, having a bigger catalogue is of no practical use if you can't actually find the recording you're hoping is available.

Composer pages on Qobuz are just artist pages, nothing special there, though the metadata does specify composer and does include work title where available.  The Qobuz web interface doesn't let you play works as a single unit, but the Logitech Media Server plugin for Qobuz does (when the metadata for this is available). 

[DavidW]

Searching for specific works on Qobuz like "Mozart oboe quartet" immediately comes up with all relevant titles unlike Spotify or Apple.

But you can't browse by composer like you can on Idagio.  So Madiel I think you have the right of it, Qobuz is a big step up from the major players but not in the Idagio/Primephonic territory.  And I think that can be a problem because you don't know what you don't know.  If I listened to Mozart's clarinet concerto and liked it, on Idagio I would almost immediately also find the clarinet quintet just by browsing.  I wouldn't have that discovery on Qobuz.

[Brian]

I have used the Qobuz download store before to make purchases. Don't know if its interface is identical to the streaming one, but on the Qobuz download store it is relatively easy to turn up what you want in search. For example, I just decided to find JoAnn Falletta's "Fantastic Scherzo" as an example and searched "Buffalo Suk" and it came right up.

Summarizing the differences you guys have described so far:
- Qobuz browsing is heavily curated towards new releases.
- Qobuz does not let you play a multi-track piece as a single unit, though it lets you play albums or create playlists.
- Idagio has even more thorough metadata and track naming (Qobuz is also good but not as good).
- Idagio does not stock some of the best indie labels.
Accurate?

[Papy Oli]

Bumping this thread after seven months to ask if anyone has a recommendation of Idagio vs. Qobuz. It looks like Qobuz has updated or altered its plans/tiers since the last discussion last year.

On the surface I see the following major differences:
- Idagio has a library of live concert videos/streams
- Qobuz has discounts on download-to-buy (in the higher tier plan)
- Qobuz has all the other musical genres in addition to classical

I plan to use whichever app on both Mac and Android devices. (I'm a monster.  ) Playlists would be nice but are not essential. Listening offline (or "save to stream later") is definitely important for the mobile app.

Are there major differences in label choice? Qobuz allows you to poke around the collection before buying, and I am very impressed with the obscure out-of-print stuff they have from labels like Supraphon and Pablo (for jazz). But there's no Hyperion.

Brian,

I have been using Idagio since November last year and Qobuz in the past. A few random thoughts for your consideration:

* I mostly use Adagio via their web browser on Windows/Opera and sometimes via their Android phone app (more on the latter further down).

* Search working fine for my use. I have grown much keener on Idagio's by work (e.g. by a specific BWV number) or browsing albums by a specific  artist/performer. That said, Qobuz worked fine in general too and where it had the upper hand was searching specifically for a Label (e.g. Holst + Lyrita). There is no Label parameter on Idagio. Overall though, I have rarely come unstuck on Idagio. YMMV of course, subject to more specific labels or recordings.

* One small annoyance on Idagio: When e.g. you search for Herreweghe, then his Albums, it displays all his recordings in a scroll page. If you browse, say, halfway down that list, click an album to look at details and add to your favourites and click BACK to return to the recordings list, it takes you back to the top of the listing. One workaround is to open the album in a new tab (in the browser that is) and keep the listing where it is in the original tab.
Weirdly, in the app, the search results sometimes appear in a continuous loop 

* Playlists worked better in Qobuz. I particularly liked the fact I could have the playlists displayed by album covers within (whether you had added parts or the whole of the album). Playlists in Idagio are a just a basic listing of the tracks. I don't use them. I only save full albums as favourites in the "Albums" section.

* Idagio doesn't display the track lengths on the album page. Qobuz does. Small thing but I miss it.

* Albums do disappear off Qobuz streaming-wise. I kept my Qobuz account even after I stopped my streaming plan to keep reference of favourites/playlists, if only to regularly check FLAC prices on those for future purchases. Several albums in my playlists were greyed out again over time (Chandos & BIS seems to be the main culprits again). I have not experienced any loss of access in Idagio yet.

* As you are a Jazz fan, Qobuz will offer you that extra variety, Not Idagio.

* One thing to bear in mind: If you use Idagio on an Android phone is the space taken by the data. I have the equivalent of around 150 CD's saved in Albums on Idagio. That uses around 8Gb on my phone internal memory. That is before downloading any of them to listen to offline, it then ramps up dramatically. That said, I do not remember the option to install the app on an external card instead where space might ne higher. Similar space management need to be taken into account for Qobuz (Offline access worked fine in both btw).
Edit: incorrect issue. Clearing fully the app and re-syncing has reduced the data usage to around 100mb only. The large storage must have been old uncleared offline downloads.
* I worked around this latter point by, in the meantime, saving future albums of interest as bookmarked pages in a specific bookmark folder in Opera. I bring them in gradually into Idagio's Albums when I have cleared up/listened to some from there.

* The Idagio app is clunky. Homepage opens fine, so do the Albums listing then it can freeze out while it updates or when you try open an album. It can take 2 or 3 restarts of the app to properly access within thereafter, all fine after that. I mostly use the laptop web browser.

* I am not a user of the Idagio concert section or their playlists. I seldomly browse the new releases but they are handy at times, right off the homepage. I instead take my pointers from GMG and my own exploration list 

* You can create in account on Idagio and use for free as mp3 to see how it works for you search-wise (Max. 6 albums can be saved as favourites).

* Idagio has had some 50% discount offers around Black Friday last year, via gift cards. I offered myself a yearly giftcard for £55-ish I think and that was it.

Conclusion: It does sound overall like a lot of niggly negatives for Idagio but I still like it a lot and it turns out to be a perfect tool for my musical exploration, at what is a very minimal cost if you snap the plan offers, again for Classical only. At least it doesn't disappear in parts (Qobuz albums) or in full (Primephonic). I'll probably jinx it now  If it is still around by then, I will probably renew again next November if the offer comes around again.





     

[Brian]

Thank you so much for that post - very detailed and lots of helpful information!

I have to go to lunch but one quick question now...Qobuz removes lots of albums from streaming after adding? I have used the download store and assumed that if something is available to buy, it must be available to stream. But if they add new releases and then take them away, that will make me upset 

[DavidW]

Thank you so much for that post - very detailed and lots of helpful information!

I have to go to lunch but one quick question now...Qobuz removes lots of albums from streaming after adding? I have used the download store and assumed that if something is available to buy, it must be available to stream. But if they add new releases and then take them away, that will make me upset 

It is extremely rare.

[Holden]

I currently subscribe to Qobuz and Spotify. The former is my go to and as I've been using Spotify for quite a while and I've developed playlists that I use in my work as an HPE teacher, I've kept it. I also tried Deezer and Primephonic and have had access in the past to Apple Music, which was complementary via my ISP/Telco. I've got Amazon Prime but am not sure at this stage whether this gives me access to their music streaming service.

Spotify appears to have the largest number of available 'songs' compared to anyone else though the huge advantage it used to have over its rivals has definitely shrunk. I also think it has the better search engine. For example, if I type Moravec (it could be anybody) into the search box  it come up with Ivan Moravec;  Artist. If I click on that, one of the options is to see all albums and it will find everything that Moravec did, regardless of collaboration with other 'artists'. When I try the same with Qobuz, in addition to Ivan Moravec, I am given a number of other options including artist collaborations to click on. Quite often some of the recordings in the collaborations don't appear when I just click on Moravec. This makes finding some of his recordings quite a chore.

If I only listened to classical then it sounds like Idagio might be an option but I also listen to a number of other genres and Qobuz provides this for me.

I'm still waiting for CD quality recordings from Spotify

[Madiel]

Spotify, the better search engine?

Maybe things have improved in recent years**, but I note you're talking about a search for an artist. I will never forget (or forgive) that Spotify's top offering for Samuel Barber was "The Barber of Seville".

**There's another thing about Spotify I hate that I know hasn't improved, but it's not search-related.

[Brian]

Olivier - by my maths, Idagio is saving about 50 MB of data on your phone for all of "your albums" even before you save them - any idea what that is? Maybe album cover and short track preview clips?

[Madiel]

Olivier - by my maths, Idagio is saving about 50 MB of data on your phone for all of "your albums" even before you save them - any idea what that is? Maybe album cover and short track preview clips?

I'm not Olivier but as an Idagio user I have no idea why he would have that, and wonder whether he accidentally has a setting to download his favourites automatically.

My own favourites and other Idagio data on my iPhone are only occupying 9 MB in total. In total.

I suppose the alternative is that the Android app is behaving wildly different from the iPhone one.

[Papy Oli]

Thank you so much for that post - very detailed and lots of helpful information!

I have to go to lunch but one quick question now...Qobuz removes lots of albums from streaming after adding? I have used the download store and assumed that if something is available to buy, it must be available to stream. But if they add new releases and then take them away, that will make me upset 

Hi Brian,

I had to do some digging around. Here is my post and conversation at the time on this issue in Qobuz:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29643.msg1317467.html#msg1317467

This issue was affecting only the availability to stream some/all of the tracks in those particular albums. It didn't prevent buying the album itself (on this latter matter, I have only come across one example in Qobuz, the Miaskovsky symphonies, which were and still are not available for sale, as withdrawn by the Rights holders).

Having re-checked yesterday on my Qobuz account, I have not seen any greyed-out tracks in my albums saved in my playlists, however, several of them turned up a dead link/page 404. Pure coincidence it may be but they were again Chandos recordings (one of the three labels I had the initial problem with BIS and Naxos). Browsing around, they were basically relisted under new entries. Simple data maintenance or removal/re-addition of the album later on ? Who knows...

It is extremely rare.

Out of a pool of millions of tracks and albums, yes it probably is, David.

When it was (hopefully no more) affecting a substantial chunk of the albums saved in your playlists, it rather made the Qobuz experience much less appealing 

[Papy Oli]

I'm not Olivier but as an Idagio user I have no idea why he would have that, and wonder whether he accidentally has a setting to download his favourites automatically.

My own favourites and other Idagio data on my iPhone are only occupying 9 MB in total. In total.

I suppose the alternative is that the Android app is behaving wildly different from the iPhone one.

Thank you for checking and highlighting your storage impact, Madiel.

I have gone back to the app, cleared the whole data (not just the cache) and re-sync'ed the account from scratch. It now only takes 100Mb.

I must have had some residual downloads of albums after being removed from favourites but not cleared the downloads themselves at the time. Idagio gives a prompt to that effect now. It didn't use to.

For comparison, the Idagio Desktop app uses 300Mb. So it was a mistake with the app at my end, apologies (I have edited my original post for clarity).

Brian,
FYI, unless I am mistaken, only the Android phone app allows the offline download/listening. The Desktop app doesn't (Obviously, the Web browser/player doesn't).

[Papy Oli]

Brian,

Here is the layout within the Qobuz Web player, it differs from the download store.

- the homepage (scrolled down from their main banner, with Classical & Jazz selected as genres of interest)