All About Streaming Music Services

Started by Wakefield, July 02, 2015, 04:15:10 AM

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DavidW

Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 21, 2023, 07:39:58 AMBut the other nuisance is that Apple Music wants to send output to whatever I have selected as the operating system's sound output (built in speakers, external DAC, etc). It doesn't seem to allow me to direct its output somewhere else, so the little operating sounds (beeps and clicks for opening folders, etc) go along with the music. That is not ideal.

Qobuz is sadly the only app that I know of that supports wasapi exclusive to stop system notifications from interfering with the music.  On Windows 10 if you open App volume and sound preferences you can set the system volume to zero however while keeping the app volumes at 100.

Madiel

Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 21, 2023, 07:39:58 AMThanks for the comments. Now that it was mentioned, I see that I can get booklets from Qobuz based on having an account that I use for their download store. Useful for future reference, but not in the current instance because the recording I am currently streaming, Kupiec's collection of Bacewicz Piano Music on Hanssler, does not have a booklet on qobuz (or anywhere else, that I can see). Not unexpected since it is an older release.

That motivation for getting qobuz on top of Apple Music is gone. But the other nuisance is that Apple Music wants to send output to whatever I have selected as the operating system's sound output (built in speakers, external DAC, etc). It doesn't seem to allow me to direct its output somewhere else, so the little operating sounds (beeps and clicks for opening folders, etc) go along with the music. That is not ideal.

Having the operating sounds as well is bad design. Most apps on my phone know not to do that. But maybe if you're using a desktop computer it's less common to separate these out, or even more difficult for the programmers.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Daverz

Quote from: Wanderer on May 21, 2023, 07:53:24 AMRegarding Chandos releases, their booklets are freely available in their website.

They were.  Maybe it's just me.  I see

HiRes Artwork available on purchase
PDF Booklet is available on purchase

when I click on the Media tab.

Madiel

Quote from: Daverz on May 21, 2023, 02:10:14 PMThey were.  Maybe it's just me.  I see

HiRes Artwork available on purchase
PDF Booklet is available on purchase

when I click on the Media tab.

Yep, they've changed it. Fairly recently. Presumably someone finally decided it was an issue (especially as it wasn't confined to Chandos label albums).
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Spotted Horses

#324
Quote from: DavidW on May 21, 2023, 07:54:14 AMQobuz is sadly the only app that I know of that supports wasapi exclusive to stop system notifications from interfering with the music.  On Windows 10 if you open App volume and sound preferences you can set the system volume to zero however while keeping the app volumes at 100.

Quote from: Madiel on May 21, 2023, 01:54:32 PMHaving the operating sounds as well is bad design. Most apps on my phone know not to do that. But maybe if you're using a desktop computer it's less common to separate these out, or even more difficult for the programmers.

All of the media players I've used (Swinsian, foobar2000) support selecting any output audio device connected, or using the default audio that you select with the OS dialog box. The fact that music goes to the selected audio device is a limitation of Apple Music, rather than MacOS. But I discovered that you apparently can divert the various desktop sounds (beeps, blips, clicks) to a specific device, so it seems like I can direct the OS noises to the built in speakers and use the audio selector to divert Apple Music to my external DAC. That seems backwards, but if it works, ok. Seems like I can also turn off OS sounds entirely by unchecking a box. That sound more attractive to me, since I never find those little noises helpful.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Pohjolas Daughter

There is an interesting article on the blog "On An Overgrown Path" which folks here might be interested in:  "Classical critics need to talk sound sense" about how companies are remastering classical recordings.  https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/05/classical-critics-need-to-talk-sound.html

Wasn't quite certain where to put this article, but he did also refer to Apple.

PD

p.s.  Trying to remember who all writes this blog?  He doesn't make it easy to find his name.
Pohjolas Daughter

Spotted Horses

#326
Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 22, 2023, 10:49:37 AMThere is an interesting article on the blog "On An Overgrown Path" which folks here might be interested in:  "Classical critics need to talk sound sense" about how companies are remastering classical recordings.  https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/05/classical-critics-need-to-talk-sound.html

Wasn't quite certain where to put this article, but he did also refer to Apple.

PD

p.s.  Trying to remember who all writes this blog?  He doesn't make it easy to find his name.


One thing that is not mentioned is that Apple Spatial Audio can be turned off. You are not compelled to listen to reprocessed sound if you use Apple Music Streaming. (I've never tried turning it on.)

I also think it's fair to say that there have always been producers who aim produce something superior to the concert hall experience. Tools to attempt this are getting more sophisticated.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 22, 2023, 10:56:31 AMOne thing that is not mentioned is that Apple Spatial Audio can be turned off. You are not compelled to listen to reprocessed sound if you use Apple Music Streaming. (I've never tried turning it on.)

I also think it's fair to say that there have always been producers who aim produce something superior to the concert hall experience. Tools to attempt this are getting more sophisticated.
I didn't know that about Apple Spatial Audio.  Good to know.  I should have added that there is also a kindred article there about Art & Son Studio and (also I think in general) their remastering and does it create an unreal experience for listeners and how that might also impact their expectations re real-life concert performances, etc.  It's here:  https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/04/sibelius-remastered-or-reimagined.html

Something to think about.

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 22, 2023, 11:02:59 AMI didn't know that about Apple Spatial Audio.  Good to know.  I should have added that there is also a kindred article there about Art & Son Studio and (also I think in general) their remastering and does it create an unreal experience for listeners and how that might also impact their expectations re real-life concert performances, etc.  It's here:  https://www.overgrownpath.com/2023/04/sibelius-remastered-or-reimagined.html

Something to think about.

PD

I'm probably outing myself as a nay-sayer, but this strikes me as similar "prophet of doom" style of commentary.  The whole thing about remastering being fundamental different from mastering because in remastering they are trying to distort the content strikes me as an artificial distinction. They can distort the content as much as they want in the "mastering" and often remastering involves finding a better source (an original tape for instance) to get closer to the original signal.

I haven't sought out any of the Art and Sons mastered recordings, but I do have the big Cluytens box which they did and I didn't notice any of the anomalies that are described. I did compare one track to an older master that I already had and my only conclusion was that the hype about it being improved was overblown, they sounded identical to me.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 22, 2023, 12:31:32 PMI'm probably outing myself as a nay-sayer, but this strikes me as similar "prophet of doom" style of commentary.  The whole thing about remastering being fundamental different from mastering because in remastering they are trying to distort the content strikes me as an artificial distinction. They can distort the content as much as they want in the "mastering" and often remastering involves finding a better source (an original tape for instance) to get closer to the original signal.

I haven't sought out any of the Art and Sons mastered recordings, but I do have the big Cluytens box which they did and I didn't notice any of the anomalies that are described. I did compare one track to an older master that I already had and my only conclusion was that the hype about it being improved was overblown, they sounded identical to me.
True:  when doing the initial mastering, it can be shall we say "mucked around with" a lot?  I would give him some credit though considering whom he has worked for in the past--at what level, I'm not certain.  If I'm recalling correctly, at one point he had something like an "about" on his blog in terms of who he was and background, etc....or perhaps my memory is wrong here?  Just would be curious to know more about what kind of jobs and positions that he had reached when he was working there.  Oh dear, I just found this.  I do remember enjoying reading some of his postings in the past.

"To the right of this column you will find a link to On An Overgrown Path, a blog run and authored by Bob Shingleton. It has been one of the most read classical music blogs across the globe for the past 10 years.

Just as John Terauds shocked readers by announcing his leaving Musical Toronto, and it's subsequent afterlife in my hands, there is another lost to announce to the classical music and opera blogosphere.

Shingleton has decided that he no longer has the same enthusiasm for blogging as he once had, and will be moving on to other things. "I've said my piece and I'll leave it all up to you".

"...Writing long-form is very time consuming, and the fragmentation of posting and commenting across multiple platforms has added to that workload," explained Shingleton in his final post last Sunday. He felt that in recent months the enjoyment of blogging has diminished, and suspected that "if this is the case for the author, it is also the case for the reader."

As a frequent reader of On An Overgrown Path, I will certainly miss his witty intelligence, poise, and thoughtfulness. He was a pioneer in an often fleeting medium, and to have lasted ten years is an accomplishment in itself."

The above is from here:  https://www.ludwig-van.com/toronto/2014/03/18/on-an-overgrown-path-loses-its-way/

And this was in one of his blogs: 

"My library includes the 2000 EMI Barbirolli Sibelius Edition which was remastered at Abbey Road. I  was trained by the BBC as a radio studio manager, and I worked at EMI Classical Division in the late 1970s when the producers and engineers were still using the same technologies and techniques used on the Barbirolli recordings. I auditioned the Art & Son Studio remasters from CD using a studio quality replay system: see footnote for details of this. The following is my personal response to listening extensively to the remasters."

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

foxandpeng

Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 20, 2023, 08:26:57 AMI can feel myself getting sucked into the streaming universe based on noticing what is available on Apple Music (and all seems to be available in lossless format).

But I miss the "booklet." I like to see the recording data (i.e., date and location of recording). And the program notes are of interest, particularly in music that is new to me. That seems to be basically nonexistent in streaming world. Do people miss this, or do some streaming services provide the "booklet?"

The lack of booklets is really annoying and the only downside for me.
"A quiet secluded life in the country, with the possibility of being useful to people ... then work which one hopes may be of some use; then rest, nature, books, music, love for one's neighbour — such is my idea of happiness"

Tolstoy

DavidW

Quote from: Spotted Horses on May 22, 2023, 12:31:32 PMI'm probably outing myself as a nay-sayer, but this strikes me as similar "prophet of doom" style of commentary. 

No I think the blogger is the naysayer.  He is doing the usual audiophile schtick of equating all processing with degrading sound.  They're just out of touch.  This is not like analog domain.  Seems like the same kind of old cranky guy yelling at kids for equalizing their headphones.

It was about time for headphone users to have a bone thrown their way.  With nearly all recordings mastered for speaker playback and most people listening on headphones... it is totally strange now.

Daverz

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 22, 2023, 10:49:37 AMThere is an interesting article on the blog "On An Overgrown Path"

The author has a very dry sense of humor: "What Norman Lebrecht heard [...] If I was not so completely convinced of his impartiality [...]".

San Antone

Today I cancelled my Premium Spotify account.  I have grown tired of the "upgrades" when each one seems to degrade functionality.  And it has become very slow.

For the last few days I've been using Apple Music and am very happy with it.  First of all, the sound quality is an improvement over Spotify, and the content seems to be as rich. It is also much better than Amazon Prime Music Unlimited, which for some reason does not display an artists' albums in reverse chronological order. So I may cancel that as well.


Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Daverz on May 22, 2023, 04:46:53 PMThe author has a very dry sense of humor: "What Norman Lebrecht heard [...] If I was not so completely convinced of his impartiality [...]".

;D

Quote from: San Antone on May 22, 2023, 05:48:26 PMToday I cancelled my Premium Spotify account.  I have grown tired of the "upgrades" when each one seems to degrade functionality.  And it has become very slow.

For the last few days I've been using Apple Music and am very happy with it.  First of all, the sound quality is an improvement over Spotify, and the content seems to be as rich. It is also much better than Amazon Prime Music Unlimited, which for some reason does not display an artists' albums in reverse chronological order. So I may cancel that as well.


Glad that you found a service that you like!  :)

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

San Antone

Quote from: Pohjolas Daughter on May 23, 2023, 12:32:46 AM;D
Glad that you found a service that you like!  :)

PD

I most likely will not cancel Amazon Music Unlimited.  Last night it was the only service which had the album Van Morrison, You Win Again.   ???

Madiel

Quote from: San Antone on May 23, 2023, 04:49:36 AMI most likely will not cancel Amazon Music Unlimited.  Last night it was the only service which had the album Van Morrison, You Win Again.   ???

*checks Deezer*

It's on Deezer.  ;D
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Spotted Horses

#337
I was resistant, but I've been sucked into streaming by Apple Music Lossless. It is going to reduce CD purchases almost to zero, if not zero. For instance, it occurs to me that I should hear Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin. Ordinarily the attractively priced box set would already be on it's way to me. But I have multiple Bruckner cycles already, it is unlikely I will be coming back to this new set over and over, probably good for one listen. No reason not to stream, except that the streamers don't have the booklet.

On the other hand, I've been planning to get Jablonsky's release of Bacewicz piano music, and I will probably go ahead and get it (lossless download). It is important repertoire that is not in my collection and I would be reluctant to be in a position to loose access to it if I lost access to streaming. After all, the current business model may change and streaming services with comprehensive catalogs may morph into something like video streaming, slim pickings. On the other hand, I have Bacewicz' string quartets in a release by the Silelian Quartet. I'm curious about the recordings by the Lutoslawski quartet on Naxos, but I would be content to stream those (unless they turn out to be dramatically superior.)

Another aspect, I'm grateful that I've been able to ascertain that C.P.E. Bach piano music bores me to tears without investing in a box set. :)

(At some level it is galling that after I've spend decades amassing a large collection of classical music, someone can pay $15 per month and effectively have a bigger collection than I do. I guess that is the psychology behind streaming resistance.)
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Pohjolas Daughter

Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 01, 2023, 11:29:57 AMI was resistant, but I've been sucked into streaming by Apple Music Lossless. It is going to reduce CD purchases almost to zero, if not zero. For instance, it occurs to me that I should hear Barenboim's Bruckner cycle with the Staatskapelle Berlin. Ordinarily the attractively priced box set would already be on it's way to me. But I have multiple Bruckner cycles already, it is unlikely I will be coming back to this new set over and over, probably good for one listen. No reason not to stream, except that the streamers don't have the booklet.

On the other hand, I've been planning to get Jablonsky's release of Bacewicz piano music, and I will probably go ahead and get it (lossless download). It is important repertoire that is not in my collection and I would be reluctant to be in a position to loose access to it if I lost access to streaming. After all, the current business model may change and streaming services with comprehensive catalogs may morph into something like video streaming, slim pickings. On the other hand, I have Bacewicz' string quartets in a release by the Silelian Quartet. I'm curious about the recordings by the Lutoslawski quartet on Naxos, but I would be content to stream those (unless they turn out to be dramatically superior.)

Another aspect, I'm grateful that I've been able to ascertain that C.P.E. Bach piano music bores me to tears without investing in a box set. :)

(At some level it is galling that after I've spend decades amassing a large collection of classical music, someone can pay $15 per month and effectively have a bigger collection than I do. I guess that is the psychology behind streaming resistance.)
Interesting thoughts.

So, there's a new twist (level?) to the game of "He with the most toys wins"?  🧐 🤣 😉

PD
Pohjolas Daughter

DavidW

Quote from: Spotted Horses on June 01, 2023, 11:29:57 AMIt is going to reduce CD purchases almost to zero, if not zero.

I understand that temptation since I lived that way for years.  But I've also seen some of my favorite music come and go.  Certainly I don't need to blind buy music anymore (well excepting Simpson's string quartets).  Just for the sake of discovery, exploration and convenience streaming wins.  But buying favorites that I know are mine without paying a monthly fee is also worth it.

I just settled in a happy equilibrium of the two.  I do feel bad for the posters that just refuse to stream, they really don't know what they're missing.