Surely, the Lowest Point in Human History Was....

[San Antone]

I heard about this story and it absolutely infuriates me. Such cruelty and he's got a special place in hell.

Yeah, To my way of thinking, people who kill animals for recreation suffer from a particularly ugly soul sickness.

[Moonfish]

What´s the story behind that picture?

Another one with lots of pics
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/11767119/Cecil-the-lions-killer-revealed-as-American-dentist.html

WP
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/07/29/how-the-death-of-cecil-the-lion-at-the-hands-of-american-walter-palmer-has-shed-light-on-the-big-business-of-big-game/

NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/29/world/africa/american-hunter-is-accused-of-killing-cecil-a-beloved-lion-in-zimbabwe.html?_r=0

[Mirror Image]

Yeah, To my way of thinking, people who kill animals for recreation suffer from a particularly ugly soul sickness.

Exactly. This guy deserves everything he gets.

[Moonfish]

http://conservationmagazine.org/2014/01/can-trophy-hunting-reconciled-conservation/

[Florestan]

Yeah, To my way of thinking, people who kill animals for recreation suffer from a particularly ugly soul sickness.

Well, hunting has been around for millenia, and it has even inspired famous works of art, musical works included. To say that all people who hunt for recreation are sick is an exaggeration, but in this case it is a very apt description. It is one thing to shoot a few partridges or hares every now and then and quite another to actively hunt endangered species just for the sake of parading a trophy.

[Mirror Image]

The killing of a lion such as Cecil (the lion which this dentist was responsible for) will affect the pride in which this lion protects. Now, this lion's cubs are vulnerable to other male lions and god knows what else thanks to this soulless, spineless coward who gets thrills out of big game hunts. He can point the finger any which way he wants. The guy is guilty. He's as much to blame as his tour guides. I'd like to see this asshole fight Cecil with no weaponry whatsoever and let's see who wins the fight.

[Moonfish]

Well, hunting has been around for millenia, and it has even inspired famous works of art, musical works included. To say that all people who hunt for recreation are sick is an exaggeration, but in this case it is a very apt description. It is one thing to shoot a few partridges or hares every now and then and quite another to actively hunt endangered species just for the sake of parading a trophy.

And paying $50,000 for the pleasure of doing so......!!!!

[San Antone]

Well, hunting has been around for millenia, and it has even inspired famous works of art, musical works included. To say that all people who hunt for recreation are sick is an exaggeration, but in this case it is a very apt description. It is one thing to shoot a few partridges or hares every now and then and quite another to actively hunt endangered species just for the sake of parading a trophy.

Hunting for sustenance has been around for millennia - but hunting for fun is a particularly obnoxious hobby found in "western developed societies".  It is absolutely sick to kill for entertainment, in any amount, IMO.

[Moonfish]

Unfortunately, large wildlife across the globe is suffering from these types of issues. Often more due to commercial aspects (such as rhino horn retrieval or ivory from elephant tusks) rather than narcissistic hunting as was the case with the lion.  Capitalism. Market-demand principles. The wildlife trade has been awful over the last decade. 

https://intlrhinofoundation.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/a-shameful-record-offical-2013-south-african-rhino-poaching-stats/

[Florestan]

hunting for fun is a particularly obnoxious hobby found in "western developed societies".  It is absolutely sick to kill for entertainment, in any amount, IMO.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sportsman%27s_Sketches

Was Turgenev absolutely sick, or living in a "western developed society"?

https://books.google.ro/books?id=Ds7liZjJA_MC&pg=PA863&lpg=PA863&dq=joseph+haydn+recreation+hunting&source=bl&ots=fuXv1yJ4rP&sig=Zd6mujrm6MQxYuy6S0D26DYP174&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBGoVChMI7-SMzuKAxwIVpWjbCh0YOAZP#v=onepage&q=joseph%20haydn%20recreation%20hunting&f=false

"For recreation Haydn indulged in hunting and fishing". Was Haydn absolutely sick, or livingin a "western developed society"?

[San Antone]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sportsman%27s_Sketches

Was Turgenev absolutely sick, or living in a "western developed society"?

https://books.google.ro/books?id=Ds7liZjJA_MC&pg=PA863&lpg=PA863&dq=joseph+haydn+recreation+hunting&source=bl&ots=fuXv1yJ4rP&sig=Zd6mujrm6MQxYuy6S0D26DYP174&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBGoVChMI7-SMzuKAxwIVpWjbCh0YOAZP#v=onepage&q=joseph%20haydn%20recreation%20hunting&f=false

"For recreation Haydn indulged in hunting and fishing". Was Haydn absolutely sick, or livingin a "western developed society"?

Yes; yes.  I am surprised that you simply cannot see how sick it is to be cruel to animals, of which killing them for fun is the most egregious example.   

[Moonfish]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sportsman%27s_Sketches

Was Turgenev absolutely sick, or living in a "western developed society"?

https://books.google.ro/books?id=Ds7liZjJA_MC&pg=PA863&lpg=PA863&dq=joseph+haydn+recreation+hunting&source=bl&ots=fuXv1yJ4rP&sig=Zd6mujrm6MQxYuy6S0D26DYP174&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBGoVChMI7-SMzuKAxwIVpWjbCh0YOAZP#v=onepage&q=joseph%20haydn%20recreation%20hunting&f=false

"For recreation Haydn indulged in hunting and fishing". Was Haydn absolutely sick, or livingin a "western developed society"?

Consider the ratio between the human population (<1 billion) versus the extent of natural habitats and size of the wildlife populations at the time compared to the present era.

[Karl Henning]

Consider the ratio between the human population (<1 billion) versus the extent of natural habitats and size of the wildlife populations at the time compared to the present era.

Yes, on the whole, I see Andrei as calling for a degree of nuance, here.  (Also, the problematic nature of judging a personality from a past epoch by the understandings and mores of our day.)

[Florestan]

Yes; yes.

Okay.

I am surprised that you simply cannot see how sick it is to be cruel to animals, of which killing them for fun is the most egregious example.

Now, this kind of sentimentalism is indeed and really a product of "western developed societies".

[Florestan]

Yes, on the whole, I see Andrei as calling for a degree of nuance, here.  (Also, the problematic nature of judging a personality from a past epoch by the understandings and mores of our day.)

Exactly.

[San Antone]

Okay.

Now, this kind of sentimentalism is indeed and really a product of "western developed societies".

Not really; the idea of cruelty to animals is in the Bible and prohibiting it is one of the Seven Laws of Noah. 

Yes, on the whole, I see Andrei as calling for a degree of nuance, here.  (Also, the problematic nature of judging a personality from a past epoch by the understandings and mores of our day.)

What kind of nuance would allow for the recreational killing of animals?  I can think of none.

[Karl Henning]

What kind of nuance would allow for the recreational killing of animals?  I can think of none.

In our day, I cannot.  But on a time, it was not simply a binary switch from "necessity hunting" to "recreational hunting."

[Florestan]

Not really; the idea of cruelty to animals is in the Bible and prohibiting it is one of the Seven Laws of Noah. 

The earliest recorded of the seven laws can be found in the Tosefta here they are listed as follows.[17]

    Seven commandments were commanded of the sons of Noah:

        concerning adjudication (denim)
        concerning idolatry (avodah zarah)
        concerning blasphemy (qilelat ha-shem)
        concerning sexual immorality (gilui arayot)
        concerning blood-shed (shefikhut damim)
        concerning robbery (ha-gezel)
        concerning a limb torn from a living animal (eber min ha-hayy)


What has torning a limb from a living animal got to do with hunting?

[San Antone]

The earliest recorded of the seven laws can be found in the Tosefta here they are listed as follows.[17]

    Seven commandments were commanded of the sons of Noah:

        concerning adjudication (denim)
        concerning idolatry (avodah zarah)
        concerning blasphemy (qilelat ha-shem)
        concerning sexual immorality (gilui arayot)
        concerning blood-shed (shefikhut damim)
        concerning robbery (ha-gezel)
        concerning a limb torn from a living animal (eber min ha-hayy)


What has torning a limb from a living animal got to do with hunting?

The Laws of Noah originate in the Bible, as the conclusion of the story of the Flood; the Tosefta is a companion to the Mishna, the earliest code of Jewish law, which includes the codification of laws from the Torah (Bible).  Tearing a limb from an animal is a specific example of cruelty, and the actual prohibition is against cruelty to animals in general.

[Ken B]

In our day, I cannot.  But on a time, it was not simply a binary switch from "necessity hunting" to "recreational hunting."

Indeed. Ever see films of subsistence bands hunting? They seem to enjoy it. Folk tales, eg of Native Americans,  evince a pleasure in hunting too. Lascaux paintings anyone?